Rectifying Misconceptions about the NASC

  • Thread starter TRAD Health and Safety
  • Start date
Or pete docherty stepped on their crack pipe......what a massive disconnect between his perceived views and working practises of nasc and its affiliates and actual goings on......starting with that dangerous trad deck sh1te his company passes off as a working platform.....Hypocritical and patronising to the extreme :mad:
 
Yawn, that was some heavy reading and not a single mention of having to submit 2 years audited accounts before you can even start to apply. I must be missing something but why would financial records be of concern when joining a trade body to draw from the pool of technical and safety guidance that is issued. Would this mean that membership would be knocked back if turnover didn't meet a minimum level? Surely the only paperwork or documents that would be relevant would be company procedures, RAMS packs, insurance, management systems etc.
 
The only reason I can see for that copperknackers is to prove you have money in the pot and are proactively using it towards safety and the upkeep of materials and training.

I think unless you have gone through the process you tend to understand very little, more like the Freemasons ha ha.

You could always employ a consultancy to ensure you are up to the standards but the that would again be doubling the money to get the membership.

Like I said before, it's going to be hard to change people's opinions of NASC without actively helping the process, especially with smaller companies.
 
For one reason or another, I was going to stay well clear of this one, but the point of the forum is to share views and experiences to try and help others, so here goes one more time.

The money thing, is a fair enough question for me. If you have a trade body willing to shout from the rooftops that you are a fit and proper company to take on a contract and fulfil it properly, a sound financial footing should form part of any decision making process and if this was extrapolated to other contracts and contractors I probably wouldn't have to write off so much bad debt year after year. I know I am a lone voice or pretty much on here, but the accusation of a big boys club just doesn't sit right with my experience, we all know I am as small as they come and when I joined my firm consisted of me, my father in law, a boy and a 7.5 ton truck. My reasons for wanting to join are simple enough, a desire to make sure I was up to date with all current guidance and any changes without having to rely on others to tell me or poorly informed contractors.

The audit process is also simple enough, we also get an audit every now and again from our insurance company and to be honest it's almost the same so obviously we are all capable of passing that or we wouldn't be trading. The site audit may well be simpler to pass for a small firm as I know all the boys are using the step and are suited and booted with all the gear no matter who or when the checks come, most of my jobs are fairly straightforward enough and haven't really found that too difficult to get through either.

I don't think my firm is better or worse than the next because I am flying a banner, but at least clients can take some comfort when trading in a strange area that I at least know what the rules and regulations are, I am insured and know how to right a risk assessment and method statement. I know we all do it but the client doesn't always until it's too late and we have all seen the RAMS needed for tomorrow start threads so it does happen.

Despite my size, I still get a say in the direction my trade goes. I also contribute to all these guidance notes and yes, whilst I don't want to carry the can for tg20 I did contribute to it as I have to the long awaited update. Those running their own small show will obviously be well used to doing their own thing and don't want anyone telling them how to do it, but for me, every man and his dog thinks they have a right to tell me how they want it done, and they got the shock of their lives when I come back armed to the back teeth with information and facts to destroy their so called beliefs. The NASC has been an invaluable tool when dealing with many contractors over the years, off the top of my head I can't remember what it costs, a fixed fee or percentage of T.O but I find it essential operating round here.

I have discussed this and other aspects of membership with a few through PM's, and have always been willing to share my views and experience to any interested party. Whilst it's only one mans experience and opinion, I think it's fair to say most members I meet and talk too find the same experience no matter how big or small they are.
 
Any time Tom, pity it never worked out though, but upwards and onwards.
 
The audit was when I was on the tools in 2009, the directors have said they won't go for the audit again.

As you have explained I can see the benefits of being in NASC and if you can get your ship in order why not have another string to your bow.

I have along way to go with the company to get it anywhere near in order, although unlike the old manager I will keep plugging away till I get what I want.

My only concern is that our company has different arms like roofing and skips n stuff.

I am separating the divisions so they run Independant of each other, although not being solely scaffolding I think it may go against us.
 
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Personally I would like to thank all contributors to this thread as you have made my Wednesday morning commute very humorous.

While trade bodies on the whole are a good thing if you get value for money, my issue with the NASC is they only loosely recognise the contribution of designers. If we really want we can become 'info members' for a fee but are then not even allowed to use the logo to demonstrate affiliation.

I would like to have seen them set up a parallel members list of 'approved' designers then clearly paying the fee, and assuming we would pass the audit, would be of value especially if the MCG insisted on 'approved' designers. As it stands, I don't see much value in it. We currently have the position where NASC members can still present the cheapest most inappropriate design which kind of undermines the point of being an NASC member?
 
Not sure about that Tom being honest. The thing that got me when reading most of the posts though was, phone the nasc see what they say. I have met a few of them, and one guy in particular is very helpful, just call them and ask they would be only too glad to speak to you.
 
you are wasted at this game AOM
THE DIPLOMATIC CORE IS SCREAMING OUT FOR YOU:eek:
all kidding aside a very good and reasoned post and the correct use of expolate should only be commended;)
 
IDH said:
Personally I would like to thank all contributors to this thread as you have made my Wednesday morning commute very humorous.

While trade bodies on the whole are a good thing if you get value for money, my issue with the NASC is they only loosely recognise the contribution of designers. If we really want we can become 'info members' for a fee but are then not even allowed to use the logo to demonstrate affiliation.

I would like to have seen them set up a parallel members list of 'approved' designers then clearly paying the fee, and assuming we would pass the audit, would be of value especially if the MCG insisted on 'approved' designers. As it stands, I don't see much value in it. We currently have the position where NASC members can still present the cheapest most inappropriate design which kind of undermines the point of being an NASC member?
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Are you an info member IDH?

I saw one of your posts last night and was going to post a response but who am I to tell you, but here goes anyway.:laugh:

If you were a member you could then maybe change it if there enough of you of the same mind. We are all up against people putting in cheap prices, nature of the beast.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------
happyhugenoet said:
you are wasted at this game AOM
THE DIPLOMATIC CORE IS SCREAMING OUT FOR YOU:eek:
all kidding aside a very good and reasoned post and the correct use of expolate should only be commended;)
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haha, Campbeltown Grammar education.;)
 
Got to be in it to win it I suppose. Off putting from the outset though and what are the chances really?

Have discussed this with some of Tech Committee in the past and apparently NASC are concerned they may take some liability if they 'approve' designers who subsequently screw up?? Seems lame though if that is true - no different to an NASC contractor messing up.
 
Everyone has a different tact, but I would join and educate them, just my opinion. I have no knowledge on the legalities but life is full of fear and trepidation from liability, but someone has to be first.
 
aom said:
Not sure about that Tom being honest. The thing that got me when reading most of the posts though was, phone the nasc see what they say. I have met a few of them, and one guy in particular is very helpful, just call them and ask they would be only too glad to speak to you.
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Wise as always!
 
i would like to know the feelings of TRAD as regards the W@H Regs which scaffolders have to work to.They are Generic and made for people who are Generally working on Terrafirma.I personally think this is an area that should be looked at from a Scaffolders point of veiw not a Joiners,Brickies,Pipefitters etc;)
I am all for safety and if 1 Scaff is saved then great but you cant wrap people in cottonwool and competative at the same time.
 
I think that they have given up happy, which is just another reason why they will be largely ignored or not taken too seriously by most on here.

How's that for diplomacy. ;)
 
aom said:
I think that they have given up happy, which is just another reason why they will be largely ignored or not taken too seriously by most on here.

How's that for diplomacy. ;)
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Hi AOM,we have not responded anymore on the NASC post as we stated our opinion about the benefits that brings us as members of the NASC and our views remain unaltered but we obviously now fully understand why a lot of Forum members believe otherwise.

There is really no more to say which is why we will not respond to any further posts on this subject directly but as we stated we will raise the issues that the thread has brought up at the next NASC Council meeting.

This is/was a very contentious issue but never the less one that was worthy of raising,it is not in our DNA to ever give up but we do know when a subject has exhausted itself.

Despite the criticism directed at us we will continue to support the Forum and encourage our Scaffolders to join as my Contracts Staff and I still believe being Members is beneficial,there is also little representation in London when compared to the Membership in general to other parts of the UK.

Although many of you perceive otherwise we have the greatest respect for good Competent Scaffolders and other Forum members and although we received much criticism we would like to thank most of those Forum members that responded particularly RIGGER who was highly critical but fair,respectful and offered good advice which we thank him for.

We look forward to being of benefit and assistance in issues that we can help with in the future,TRAD.
 
Good post Trad. And good to see that you can accept criticism and differing views without threatening to leave the forum as has happened on many occasions before when certain members have been criticized (no names no pack drill).
Will be interesting to hear the results of the issues raised at the next meeting. Please keep us informed.
 
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