who actually put the CISRS Inspection course together.

A substantial part of this presentation is copied from various sources who have provided this free of charge provided they receive proper recognition.
Some of the content was offered previously for a fee and CISRS refused the offer obviously preferring to obtain it without payment.


WOW CISRS ACTUALLY STOLE SOMEBODIES MATERIAL TO PUT THIS COURSE TOGETHER... THEN WANT £750 and £500 for SOMEBODY ELSES WORK....

I Think CISRS / NASC Should post A Formal Proper Reply to these accusations..

The above statement says it all doesnt it.

ROBBING THEIVING BAS****S..
 
its his material that has been used to put the course together without his permisson.

do people realise how long it actually takes him to draw a picture on his laptop. believe me it takes him hours and hours. How many copies of this course have been sold . I think he should be paid loyalties of about 50% of each course that has been sold.

wonder what he thinks ..



Copywrite breach springs to mind.
 
Scaff Inspection

Hi All,

Just as an add on and probably Andy might help.
Do we know of requirements for Inspectors in other countries.
Certainly Saudi Aramco requirements make much more sense.
Minimum 3 years on the tools and 11, yes, Eleven, days training with independent examination.
Admittedly this was quite a few years ago so maybe changed now.

If the canteen girl worked on site for a few months would she be eligible to sit the Inspection Training ?.

Cheers
 
This does my head in.

We are caught up in a right mess.

ECITB issue started it off, yes the cards were given out with the cornflakes, even the ECITB do not know have many card holders there are. That is why they could not inform them all.

Some of these guys have an abundance of knowledge, SKILLS TEST THEM!!

Then we have the case of trying to find info on current requirements, nightmare, be nice if it was all written down in one booklet so we could have it to hand.

Then we have our training system, which churns out wannabe scaffolders left right & centre without any experience right up to Advanced!! INCREASE THE COURSE, SKILLS TESTS MORE. MORE EXPERIENCE!!

Now we have a course that lets site agents get a card to say he can inspect a scaffold without having prior knowledge of scaffolding. They need to know what they are signing for! so take responsibility & employ someone with that experience & undertake training that will enable you to do your job. Advance Inspection should only be for ex-scaffolders with an Advanced card.

WHAT A MESS.


My head is spinning.

To all our members the above shows the complete turmoil the training system is in. That is why you will see on the web site the training section is still under construction!!


Stewart Quinney
SCCR Chairman
 
time for legal action id say,and what an oppertune time to strike just when their heads up their arse some would say its always been up there anyway.
 
Hiya Stewart,

The only part that appears to work properly is where money is being collected. I, like others have lots of training experience and not once, during almost 20 years, have I been asked for my thoughts regarding training. Think we have the basis of a great training and assessment programme that unfortunately, since CITB relinquished management, has stood still except for marketing purposes.
I know of a situation where a scaffolder with almost 30 years experience must not only complete the part 1 training etc, but also, 6 months, "practice", in between the courses before he is allowed to progress.
Stupid and senseless waste of his and others time.
In contrast to this the NVQ has progressed rapidly through it's relatively short history and, in a lot of people's minds, could better serve the industry and it's workers.

Good luck Ragscaff and thanks for fighting on our behalf.
 
Ok lads this one will top it rite off!!!!!
Cape East Abu Dhabi run 3 day training courses YES 3 Days. I have only seen certs for basis and advanced both courses are 3 days long they are then signed off by CITB assessors with numbers from the CITB along side them.
There is also a training centre called Gulf Training that does inspection courses 2 days as far as i know anyone can turn up for that one. I got an inspector on one of the barges with this certificate he could not even write his name never mind if the report out. I sent him back to the beach and i have never seen him again created more work for myself in the end as have to get the chopper to barges most days but the site manager told me

ANYTHING GOES WRONG IN THE FIELD TO DO WITH SCAFFOLD IT FALLS ON TOP OF YOU LOL
 
when i did the advanced inspection unless you where a scaff you would not have passed it.
No details on SWL or bay sizes where given, we where expected to know them. All the guys on it passed, a designer from Hertel, Bolton Scaffs boss at the time and the rest of us where scaffs.

There was no way unless you knew the basics as Ian mentioned earlier that you would have passed.

may be if this is the way the course is run you need to be a scaff and one that can remember the facts and figures to become an advanced scaffold inspector?

I still think that you need to be upto date with everything to be on top of your game. As people have said Ecitb and grandfather rights scaffs have they had any of this information due to the no training thing.

Although if you send the stuff out before hand anyone that can remember things quite easily will be able to remember the details they need to answer the questions its a 50/50 position isnt it?

Maybe scaffs should do some sort of refresher every 2 years to see if they know the new regs and ACOPS but then again this is extra money.

I think we are in a situation where no one will win and anybody trying to help the situation will not please everyone, the current providers have put the courses together will certain knowledge but everyone is having a go at them.

Same with everything people will never be happy how things are run cos they could probably do it better. No one likes to have their jobs pulled apart but if they are most of the time there will be a genuine reason wont there?

sorry loads to write and always go off on different tangents!!
 
What ?
Maybe scaffs should do some sort of refresher every 2 years to see if they know the new regs and ACOPS but then again this is extra money.
You answered you own question!!
If they want lads to keep up to date then give the information out for free in a new mag or something TG20:10 costs about £500 to none members same with SG4:10 been trying to get a copy without paying but no chance
 
The thing is Andy, and i agree it would be brilliant if it could be free.

how many scaffs if sent the information would bother to digest the info?
How would you know they had? competency exam? which costs money, i dont know maybe this could be set up on the computer that people could do within a time limit?

This was what i meant everybody wants and interperets things differently.

as for TG20:08 i agree you should be able to get it for free but who pays the printing costs is there a viable cost that people would be willing to pay?
 
scaffcon said:
The thing is Andy, and i agree it would be brilliant if it could be free.

how many scaffs if sent the information would bother to digest the info?
How would you know they had? competency exam? which costs money, i dont know maybe this could be set up on the computer that people could do within a time limit?

This was what i meant everybody wants and interperets things differently.

as for TG20:08 i agree you should be able to get it for free but who pays the printing costs is there a viable cost that people would be willing to pay?
Click to expand...


The information a scaffolder needs can be put on a simple e-mail or A4 sheet. i.e handrail heights etc etc. If its more technical then that would be covered by the drawing!!

If there are guys out there who do not know the basics that is a problem that has been manufactured by the current system.

The fault would lie with the CITB & the employers.

Needs sorting, its only going to get worse.

Ragscaff
 
Hiya Scaffcon,

This brings up a interesting thought.
If someone fails to remember that the S.W.L., (Safe Working Load), of a R.A.C., (Double), is 6.1kN or that a Class 2 Independent Tied Scaffold has a maximum loading of 1.5kN per sq metre, should they fail the course ?
What is important, is that the R.A.C. is used in the correct place so it would be a much better question to ask which coupler must be used to connect a ledger to a standard.
I, and no other person, can remember all the legislation and standards applicable to scaffolding therefore we have books and guides to help us.
Maybe, this is a reason why so many, "higher educated", people pass the inspection test compared to the scaffolder.
Is this a problem with our training ?
Do we ask the wrong questions ?
Do we select the wrong people for training ?
I am quite sure that almost all the admin from my company would complete the scaffold inspection test easily but I would never permit them to inspect a scaffold.

Would you ?
 
AGREE

but can a system be put together thats cost is going to be minimal?

---------- Post added at 10:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------
kevin34 said:
Hiya Scaffcon,

This brings up a interesting thought.
If someone fails to remember that the S.W.L., (Safe Working Load), of a R.A.C., (Double), is 6.1kN or that a Class 2 Independent Tied Scaffold has a maximum loading of 1.5kN per sq metre, should they fail the course ?
What is important, is that the R.A.C. is used in the correct place so it would be a much better question to ask which coupler must be used to connect a ledger to a standard.
I, and no other person, can remember all the legislation and standards applicable to scaffolding therefore we have books and guides to help us.
Maybe, this is a reason why so many, "higher educated", people pass the inspection test compared to the scaffolder.
Is this a problem with our training ?
Do we ask the wrong questions ?
Do we select the wrong people for training ?
I am quite sure that almost all the admin from my company would complete the scaffold inspection test easily but I would never permit them to inspect a scaffold.

Would you ?
Click to expand...

Kevin

Ive seen the problems where lads put singles on ledgers?
Rakers tied on clips?
Current guidance, best practice?

would you put ties on singles or 1 single?

This was a place i used to work.

I think alot of scaffs dont care. Some are after the money.
 
you would have to be a fckn savant to remember all the data on the various aspects of our job,good point kevin.
 
Brilliant, "Savant" indeed. Have to look it up now. Maybe we can all use that word as Scaff talk. "Who do you think I am", "a FCKN Savant".

Thanks celtibhouy

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------

Heard excuses like, "the ledger joint was in the way", etc but also know that it's just a bit of bad planning. Maybe you could fool a inspector by placing a check below the single but we know the RAC will resist movement in 4 directions and also has a much higher distortion loading so the single can never replace it.

Of course you're right also about, "some don't care". Think these are less and less now though and in every walk of life.

People will always make mistakes or simply have a bad day so we do need inspectors, but they should be at least equal in skill to the ones being inspected.

Thanks celticbuoy
 
Kevin

I do agree with you.

But as you said we have guides to look these things up, the problem is people dont.

The thing that scares me is that its the basic stuff that the 2 day warrior inspectors can pull that the competent scaffolders are getting wrong....

I am behind the scaffs 100% but we are not making an easy life for ourselves!:confused:
 
You also have the problem of the pressure the scaffolder is on, stuck on site, no delivery client on your case due to a tight schedule. Not a proper excuse for bad workmanship but a contributing factor.

Ragscaff
 
Inspection Training

Another good point scaffcon and one we do suffer from. Is this mainly on sites where there is no or little supervision as it would seem difficult to find serious faults on high profile work.

It is an industry where things are tight. You and I know that sometimes we have to have people who we would not choose but through pressure from a client we have to put the numbers on site.

If I ask the question,
Who would plan to produce a unsafe scaffold ? I would say none, so the reasons must be a mixture of pressure, as Ragscaff mentioned, poor preparation, poor operatives and supervision.

I think you would agree that the standard of scaffolding has improved a lot over the years and one of the reasons for this is improved supervision.

Wouldn't it be great if experienced people had the resources to visit every scaffold and the industry kept all the scaffolders up to date. Where the scaffolders didn't feel they were being victimised and used.

Heard that in Australia they have a system where only Advanced scaffolders are inspectors and that is the only work they do. Maybe an Australian member will confirm that.

Cheers
 
Frederik

Great Post---I would just like to expand on patent defects, these overt Breaches are comparatively easy to observe to the TRAINED EYE, however, it is the covert Breaches that concerns me---as part of a Loss Prevention Strategy I have conducted Scaffolding Safety Surveys with involves testing percentages of of component parts to verify compliance to B.S. 1139 and the Manufacturers Recommendations for deployment of Couplers. These Surveys reveled on average 33% of the Couplers tested were either over or under Compliance.

In order to maintain the integrity, reliability and stability of the Structure as well as the component part these Surveys are a small but integral part of a Full Survey. Until we can deploy mechanical measures control the basic flaw, we will never be able to proclaim that a Structure is commissioned at its Safest Optimum Level and therefore liable to any partial or total collapse.

Garry...
 
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