yeap make you right frederik but the industrail game is so much different to the street scaffolder.and thats not a dig anything for a easy life frederik!!!!
Ecitb scaffs tkt
- Thread starter T.ANIMAL
- Start date
yeap make you right frederik but the industrail game is so much different to the street scaffolder.and thats not a dig anything for a easy life frederik!!!!
My thinking on the issue is, if the ladders are on one end of the scaffold, its quicker to climb up and down. If they are on alternative ends on each lift, you might not have clear passage, men and materials stacked. Access to ladders up and down should have a clear passageway.
make you right brandy but a certain firm want it a certain way due too trip hazzards!!! been taught youve got to come off the ladder with the stupid gate. then walk to the
other end of scaffold then open gate and go on your journey upwards lol!!!
Dico, Ive yet to meet a scaff that would admit to a bad job. Only a scaff can tell if its a good job. I got over 30 years experience in scaffolding,T&f and system around the world,and never had a ticket ever and dont qualify now even on grandads rights,thats why I support the sccr in the fight for the eictb boys. I am working on a site as a site manager at the moment,recently done my scaffold inspectors ticket. The scaffold company that put the job up, on our site, have done an alrite job,but I know a lot of the boys on this forum would pull it to pieces. I never pulled rank with the scaffs but pointed out a load of basic defects. Ladders tied with singles, 300mm overhangs on inside boards supporting other boards on returns, gaps on inside boards of 200 mm off the building slab no inside hand rails,transoms set at 1500mm apart, access tower to the top floor not tied to building,Ring ties not set properly. Point is I was only trying to save the scaffs a journey from Kent to hampstead to put things right. Scaff inspector for the site made them come back and rectify things, Fookin stubborn lot scaffs. They now talk to me.
respect too you fredrick what one scaffolder would find respectable another scaffolder or employer would find wrong so glad ive done my time coz the games finished too many money grabbers that no fook all but!!! have the power to take take take take!!!!
Garry Adams
Well-known member
dangeruss
You are quite correct the SCCR was conceived with a view to contribute advice and Guidance via consultation with Industry Bodies and Agencies, however, until such times that the SCCR membership numbers has increased to the point where the SCCR voice is heard, we, must adopt the Guidance within SG4:10 Section 6 Methods of Access and Egress.
Garry...
You are quite correct the SCCR was conceived with a view to contribute advice and Guidance via consultation with Industry Bodies and Agencies, however, until such times that the SCCR membership numbers has increased to the point where the SCCR voice is heard, we, must adopt the Guidance within SG4:10 Section 6 Methods of Access and Egress.
Garry...
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scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
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Aaahemmm, not all safety people have turned their back on where they come from
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Ian
Garry Adams
Well-known member
Present Company accepted and those who have served their time in the Industry...
bulls!it baffels brains like a driving test how many of us olde gits would pass the theory let a lone the driving test what we need is the lads that left the forum to get there ar!es
back ps who shot aom where the hell is he lol!!
back ps who shot aom where the hell is he lol!!
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ragscaff
Guest
Most site I work on want stairs.
But if we use ladders they are not going to go straight up due to the fact of something falling through on workers coming up. If the ladders are at different bays it reduces the risk.
Ragscaff
But if we use ladders they are not going to go straight up due to the fact of something falling through on workers coming up. If the ladders are at different bays it reduces the risk.
Ragscaff
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ragscaff
Guest
You hit the nail on the head!!
At the start of a new job you have to be all singing & dancing Health & Safety.
When the site gets behind then all that goes out the window. On housing sites you get to hand over day & try to barrier off your work area, no chance!!! You are lucky if no-one is still working on the scaffold as you take it down
Ragscaff
At the start of a new job you have to be all singing & dancing Health & Safety.
When the site gets behind then all that goes out the window. On housing sites you get to hand over day & try to barrier off your work area, no chance!!! You are lucky if no-one is still working on the scaffold as you take it down
Ragscaff
Frederic, you can use singles to tie metal ladders, as long as its a wrap over and it fits around the stile and around the tube. This rules out most ladders over 4m long as the stiles are too thick.Dico, Ive yet to meet a scaff that would admit to a bad job. Only a scaff can tell if its a good job. I got over 30 years experience in scaffolding,T&f and system around the world,and never had a ticket ever and dont qualify now even on grandads rights,thats why I support the sccr in the fight for the eictb boys. I am working on a site as a site manager at the moment,recently done my scaffold inspectors ticket. The scaffold company that put the job up, on our site, have done an alrite job,but I know a lot of the boys on this forum would pull it to pieces. I never pulled rank with the scaffs but pointed out a load of basic defects. Ladders tied with singles, 300mm overhangs on inside boards supporting other boards on returns, gaps on inside boards of 200 mm off the building slab no inside hand rails,transoms set at 1500mm apart, access tower to the top floor not tied to building,Ring ties not set properly. Point is I was only trying to save the scaffs a journey from Kent to hampstead to put things right. Scaff inspector for the site made them come back and rectify things, Fookin stubborn lot scaffs. They now talk to me.
Your not allowed to use singles to form an inertia tie on the ladder (wedged on the inside of the stiles)as they are prone to going loose and they look rubbish. fanny clips or clams are also a no no.
Cant beat a square lashing , puts most people off trying to nick the ladder well.
You make a good point regarding the ladders in the same area, everybody knows where they are in case of an emergancy , its easier to inspect them and usualy the ladder is where you would put a scaff tag indicating that the scaffold is safe.
---------- Post added at 08:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 AM ----------
Top ladder access point should have a trapdoor so nothing can fall through, or it should be incorperated within a purpose built ladder access tower with a physical guard or gate around it, seperate to the working scaffold.
There should be nowhere on a working platform where a person or materials can fall through and injure anyone. WAHR
If there is a risk of workers dropping tools or materials whilst climbing up ladders then a staircase should be considered or get the forklift to lift up plant and tools.
It boils down to planning at an early stage, the HSE don't just excuse the scaffold companies anymore if they quote the old answer " they didn't want to pay for stairs" when someone gets hurt, ITS EVERYONES RESPONSIBILITY, EVEN THE SCAFFS.
Sorry if that all sounded like me lording up , but I have learned from bitter experience.
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ragscaff
Guest
Good answers :bigsmile:
The only thing with that is a lot of sites will not have the room for stairs, most don't have room for external ladder towers. I have seen ladders placed back to back on multi use scaffolds & on a job like that I would tend to stagger the ladder access to reduce the risk of items falling through.
We know you should have only two working lifts etc, but in the real world all lifts are used, so If you plan for that situation then you should stagger the access.
Thats the thing with scaffolding today, two many rules or perceived rules that sometimes the planning for use is not always the best or safest.
Also the issue of cost always plays a part.
Ragscaff
The only thing with that is a lot of sites will not have the room for stairs, most don't have room for external ladder towers. I have seen ladders placed back to back on multi use scaffolds & on a job like that I would tend to stagger the ladder access to reduce the risk of items falling through.
We know you should have only two working lifts etc, but in the real world all lifts are used, so If you plan for that situation then you should stagger the access.
Thats the thing with scaffolding today, two many rules or perceived rules that sometimes the planning for use is not always the best or safest.
Also the issue of cost always plays a part.
Ragscaff
Alrite Dangeruss, thanks for your reply, Seems to me scaffolding is about interpretations, I personally cant see a problem with singles to tie ladders with. On the course with Ken Cain He was pretty insistent singles cant be used anymore,having used them myself in the past I have noticed they have a tendancy to work loose. As for ladder access I can see both sides of the debate here. Some of the ladder positions on our site colide with the ledger bracing making it awkward for some of the trades to get their gear through,so that part wasnt too well thought out. It would be a bit of a mission for the company to alter the ladder points now,and no one complained,so Ive kept quiet. Can you tell me. the job has been set out with doublearms/bones 5 boards wide, Should the toe boards be on the transoms. I believe they should be,on my site they sit on the boards. a minor detail,curious??!!!
The point is nobody wants to pay for them Ragscaff, that doesn't mean you can't build them.
If a scaffolder on daywork knows that there should be a decent ladder access point ,with a gate or trapdoor or guard or whatever, and doesn't build one and just sticks the ladder up the side of the scaffold with no gate, he really shouldn't be doing the job, or he should get some propper training.
Its simply not good enough anymore to not bother, these are fundemental things, trainee stuff, if we as a trade want to be taken seriously we have to look as though we are serious and work to a tried method.
I know the SCCR wants to change things, and I agree to a certain point that there should be another voice as well as the NASC, but some of their safety guidance (SG) is based on sound knowledge and good practice. so why not embrace it ?
Sometimes when I read this forum the SCCR remind me of the "Peoples front of Judea" in the Life of Brian, when they are sitting around talking about "What have the Romans done for us" the NASC sg guidance have actualy done quite a bit for us as scaffolders, we may not like some of it, some of it is pointless (sg4:10) but there is no alternative at present.
I hope the SCCR will make the NASC think twice,but don't discount everything they have achieved just because of who they are. Making rules can be a double edged sword !
---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------
Frederik, If the scaffold company are using Redy-lok and there isn't any netting or Monarflex you don't need internal bracing except on the bottom lift and again approx every 24m. as long as its tied properly ( every other standard every other lift) I think thats what SGB claimed.
The dog bones were initialy designed to have toeboards sitting on the transomes on the outside, so Ii don't know whats gone wrong on your job mate.
ahaa dangeruss!!! The plot thickens. I'm only a poor little unticketed ex scaff with a basic inspection ticketl lol....So much to learn,,and at my time of life I thought I knew it all....Have I read that right..toeboards on the outside???? Job has monoflex all round. See what I mean...Interpretations
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ragscaff
Guest
I am answering this thread as a scaffolder, the point I have made in several posts is that its all & well having guidelines & rules but it is always the guys on the ground who have the pressure put on them!!
If you have not got a ladder access tower included on the job spec & you put one in how many firms would be happy with that!!
I know what you are supposed to but that is not always the way you can do it.
Been on price most my life & I have not met many scaffolders who will erect something they are not getting paid for.
The question that had been answered was above base, multiple working lifts. If I am putting ladder access points in & all lifts had some form of work being done then I would stagger the lift access points due to the possibility of items falling through. Top lift only then I would look at back to back.
When we stagger the ladder points they either have a double handrail access point built round them or a gate depending on what is supplied. Don't know why you brought up the SCCR in this & SG means guidance!!!
I know I represent the SCCR in a lot of things on here but I am a working scaffolder, I do not sit behind a desk, well only in my spare time!!
To help you out when I am replying to issues relating to SCCR matters I will put my name, when I am part taking in a debate as a scaffolder I put Ragscaff.
Ragscaff :bigsmile: