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steve gregory
Guest
how that be when the man who sold them down the river will be shacked up in a mansion in spain or somewhere..
id like details please..
Ecitb scaffs tkt
- Thread starter T.ANIMAL
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how that be when the man who sold them down the river will be shacked up in a mansion in spain or somewhere..
id like details please..
The CISRS recognises the NVQ -it is a fundamental part of their entry criteria. They just won't issue a card confirming accreditation unless you meet all specified criteria, as discussed ad nauseum elsewhere the forum.
There is a pile of negativity on here about CISRS and I think it is misdirected. Surely it's easily the best competence scheme for Scaffolders in the UK?! It does all the things I would associate with proving competence and requires proof of training and experience. I accept it's not perfect, but from a health and safety stand point there is no question whatsoever that it's the best competence scheme there is for Scaffolders in the UK, if not the world.
I understand that it must be very frustrating to be in the position that some of the fellas on here are finding themselves in, i.e. a lifetime in the industry and being told that the cards on which they had previously relied are no longer valid. However, why not direct the frustration at the companies that failed to train you during that lifetime? Why not direct it at the ECITB, who, in my opinion have hung you all out to dry? The CISRS are not the villain of the piece, they operate a scheme that serves tens of thousands of Scaffolders very well and it does likewise for member companies of the UKCG, who choose to adopt the CISRS scheme as their preferred method of ensuring competence.
I got an ECITB card stating I was a Scaffolder after 6 months in the yard, when I didn't know a sleeve from a ledger. Fortunately, (or unfortunately - depending on your view) the ECITB card was never really fully accepted in this area (North West), so local employers fully endorsed the old CITB scheme. This usually meant being sent to Bircham Newton (or latterly one of the local CITB Centres) and going there set me up for a career in the industry.
I now work in health and safety (primarily in scaffolding, but in other areas too) and spend large parts of my time discussing competence. Putting aside my knowledge & experience of scaffolding (25 years or so) and speaking purely from a health and safety professional's viewpoint, there is no way the ECITB scheme can be compared to that operated by the CISRS.
I appreciate that there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of perfectly capable Scaffolders registered on the ECITB scheme, but don't see how it is then fault of the CISRS that those same people don't meet their entry criteria or why they should change their own entry requirements because your own scheme has let you down.
cassie
Well-known member
Did the just hand out the ECITB cards to anyone then ?? no proof required of competance. ??
I can't speak for everyone on here Cassie, but in my ECITB experience, the Supervisor would fill out a form and you signed it and paid a few quid. A short time later, you would receive a card which stated you were a Scaffolder. I do not know of anyone who has been assessed or even had their credentials checked by ECITB.
Perhaps others have had different experiences?
well i assure you fat guy that wasent the case with me and a lot of others
i started labourering in 1987 for 2 years and i received a citb/cisrs. trainee ticket in 1989 then i got a ecitb in 1991.i recieved this from a well respected
manager artherwells of sgb ive done my time so why shouldnt i argue my case
by the way ive had my cisrs card for 21 years dont you think thats enough trainning.if a few people had stuck together instead of letting people get
away with it we wouldnt be here now you wait untill next year when the ones
working cant get work.
Podger
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We seem to agree that the ECITB have let their scaffolders down and by not bringing them into the ACE scheme and awarding NVQs to scaffolders who have completed the the required VR units in accordance with access and rigging operations .
You mention "competence" correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the NVQ the proof of competence under the CISRS scheme and not the CITB training ,as things stand you can not receive a scaffolders qualification without an NVQ.
Some of the ECITB scaffolders have NVQs completing all the required VR units in exactly the same way as CISRS scaffolders . but they to have been refused entry to the CISRS at a level appropriate to their qualifications simply because the awarding body was not the CISRS/NASC preferred partner Cskills , This is morally and possibly legally wrong .
Its an absolute disgrace that scaffolders of the caliber of Tanimal and Dico are being forced to join the CISRS at trainee level and complete a part 1 course tailored for candidates with six month industry experience.
Why can't they complete an assessment and an NVQ which is proof of competence or at the very minimum receive dispensation from CISRS to part 1 exemption subject to brief skills test prior to part 2 training .
We all know the answer is £££s thats why the assessed route was withdrawn coincidentally around the same time as the ECITB scheme
Was informed yesterday that the assessed route was withdrawn because it was getting abused,guys that were just in there twenties were going on there advanced, would that not be the same today, your 18 year old can do his part 1, 6 months later part 2, 18 months later advanced, so wouldnt he be 20 then, but a lot less cash in his pocket from all the training costs compared to the assessed route. maybe thats why that route was withdrawn.
if you satisfy the instructor on all the elements, then you should warrant the card. no matter the age, still think that lads should labour for at least a year before going on the spanners.:bigsmile:
if you satisfy the instructor on all the elements, then you should warrant the card. no matter the age, still think that lads should labour for at least a year before going on the spanners.:bigsmile:
rumple
Well-known member
I had the Eitb card first before the Ecitb, it was a pink union card and cost a fiver. I saw a story in the construction news and it was on an earlier thread on here saying a manager got his eight year old daughter one.
---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------
This thread is great, 528 posts, hopefully there will be some closure before 1,000. I'll miss it
---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------
This thread is great, 528 posts, hopefully there will be some closure before 1,000. I'll miss it
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ragscaff
Guest
S**t a plane nearly took my head off.
Or is this all above me!
NASC had nothing to do with the removal of ECITB HA!!
How was it within two months the assessed route was removed & so was the ECITB!!
Don't cloud the issue there are over 20,000 scaffolders without CISRS who have more than five years scaffolding experiance ( not just ECITB) why put them in at trainee level.
You say assessed route was a joke! So is CISRS. attend it & pass!!
IT IS NOT A QUALIFICATION!!!
Or is this all above me!
NASC had nothing to do with the removal of ECITB HA!!
How was it within two months the assessed route was removed & so was the ECITB!!
Don't cloud the issue there are over 20,000 scaffolders without CISRS who have more than five years scaffolding experiance ( not just ECITB) why put them in at trainee level.
You say assessed route was a joke! So is CISRS. attend it & pass!!
IT IS NOT A QUALIFICATION!!!
No I was getting the yard rate. If the Supervisor needed daywork men on site, he would get them ECITB cards so he could get a higher rate. I only got the bog standard £4 an hour or whatever it was.
paddy carr
Moderator
S**t a plane nearly took my head off.
Or is this all above me!
NASC had nothing to do with the removal of ECITB HA!!
How was it within two months the assessed route was removed & so was the ECITB!!
Don't cloud the issue there are over 20,000 scaffolders without CISRS who have more than five years scaffolding experiance ( not just ECITB) why put them in at trainee level.
You say assessed route was a joke! So is CISRS. attend it & pass!!
IT IS NOT A QUALIFICATION!!!
I never thought the jokes were on this thread,however, Why did the NASC cross the road ?
Answer, they never, they were always,sleeping in the same bed as CISRS.
Now the funding and CSCS applicants, are getting scarcer, they need a monetary income, CUE, ECITB, and i still hold ond to my belief about you will need a NVQ on your 'Grandfather Rights 'Card next, However thats for another day.
it seems this card was abused on some firms which has given it a bad press
all these details should be on file at the ecitb office along with the supervisor or managers refrences and renewal dates ecitb scaffolders that got on in the game renewed there ticket.the ones how were wasters got filtered out and
are in other jobs.all work history can be traced back through national insurance and inland revenue.so with refrences and work history why can this
not be put into action instead of the brickwall and red tape!!!!!
rumple
Well-known member
sounds like you have found yourself a job, best of luck with data protection, do we really think the ECITB care?? If they did they would keep the card.
---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------
either that or a 2 day skills test
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steve gregory
Guest
well I think they should be allowed a 3 day practical assessment( like the old assessed route)stage 1 and 4 days of theory intenses classwork(stage 2) and a completed portfolio to gain the part 2 status (basic) including the multi choice question papers. They must have had to have had more than 10 years experence for this course.
This way they have had the theory information given, Im sure a course can be developed in this way.
After all how many ECITB scaffs can answer the relevent TG20 questions.
Just my opinion...
This way they have had the theory information given, Im sure a course can be developed in this way.
After all how many ECITB scaffs can answer the relevent TG20 questions.
Just my opinion...
this thread getting beter by the day its no good knowing sg20 questions if you cant put scaffolding up when you get your cisrs ticket ohh i cant do a hanger or canterliver but i no the sg20 questions wonder how many scaffolders no the national grid besc questions
to get on site as a scaffolder iam not knocking the instructors just the system.
to get on site as a scaffolder iam not knocking the instructors just the system.
daz
Well-known member
regardless of what we all think CISRS is what they want,right or wrong it doesnt matter at the moment if you want a job your gonna have to shell out,dont agree with it myself but thats how it is..Its a ball ache i know,but for now speculate to accumulate,better to be able to earn something than sweet FA..
Podger
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A lot of NASC accredited companies are just paying lip service to TG20 08 , drive around any major town or city in the UK viewing scaffold structures and judge for yourself.
In the industrial industrial sector scaffolds don't get tagged unless they are TG20 compliant , Your right Steve a lot of the old school ECITB scaffolders may not be able to quote TG20 chapter and verse but put jobs up on a daily basis that comply with all the latest industry ACOPs .
Get the NVQ assessors off their arses and on site and assess "competence" in the work place not by looking at endless photographs of young Johnny clipped on to somebody else's job !
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steve gregory
Guest
yes i agree podger on site assessment would be great .. whos going to pay for it is the question.I'd happly go out and do onsite assessment day after day.