Ecitb scaffs tkt

i no 2 large respectable firms that would start me tomorow if they had the work and paye
me as an advanced scaffolder as theve done in the passed. as most of there contracts
and clients now require a cisrs ticket iam now unemployable all these clients once accepted ecitb right down to the risk accesment wonder who they had there ears chewed off by.is this to much to ask for a valid scaffold ticket so i can carry on my career iam not asking for a handout just my career back as ive been doing this for the
last 2 decades is this too much to ask!why should i work under a trainee ticket
when ive been doing and being payed as an advanced scaffolder for years. the only way
i can now errect scaffold is if i have an advanced cisrs scaffolder working with me what an insult! if i go on the dole why should the british worker paye for me when i have a trade its crazy
 
Dico
If only there was a way round your current predicament.... Oh that's right there is, you could get the correct training....
 
Hi All

I have been reading this thread with great intrest.

Can I relate my thoughts. I passed my driving test back in 1984 I did not have any driving lessons with an approved school which you could loosley call "training".
After sitting my driving test the examiner shook my hand and said you have passed you my know get your full driving license. My understanding is that this means I am a competent driver.

I dont remeber the examiner saying before you get your license you now need to pay me for training you dont need.

As I have said before I hold a L2 & L3 in scaffolding and hav ben in the game for a long time.

Why should I have to pay for training I dont want or need my spanner does my talking??
 
mad dog said:
Hi All

I have been reading this thread with great intrest.

Can I relate my thoughts. I passed my driving test back in 1984 I did not have any driving lessons with an approved school which you could loosley call "training".
After sitting my driving test the examiner shook my hand and said you have passed you my know get your full driving license. My understanding is that this means I am a competent driver.

I dont remeber the examiner saying before you get your license you now need to pay me for training you dont need.

As I have said before I hold a L2 & L3 in scaffolding and hav ben in the game for a long time.

Why should I have to pay for training I dont want or need my spanner does my talking??
Click to expand...

.
Luckily your driving test has nothing to do with the HASAW Act otherwise you would be sitting it every 5 years or so to ensure you were aware of any changes to the technical guidance

---------- Post added at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------
Tony"Scaffs don't scare"B said:
Dico
If only there was a way round your current predicament.... Oh that's right there is, you could get the correct training....
Click to expand...

I think you will find that dico is correctly trained and competent
 
You're going to have to explain that one to me xxianxx as Dico states he is not a CISRS Card holder. So where is his training as ECTIB was not training and NVQ is assessment, again not training
 
hi tony my self and many others might not have the nvq the same as a lot of scaffolders
that got grandfathers rights iam not after free handout we just want our scaffold status back as for the cisrs ive had a trainee now for 20 years which is still valid as with a lot of ecitb scaffolders its valid and we keep the cisrs status provided we start to retrain
again i think 20 years with a trainee ticket has got to be beter than 20 days in a class
room to learn scaffolding when youve had hands on exsperience if its the nvq thats needed give us a week of nvq not 18 months training or they should of never ever allowed scaffolders to ave a ecitb ticket like ive said before work history and refrences
we all no most jobs are through the scaffold circuit and not the job centre.
 
Dico I know I've seen a post on here somewhere with what training you have had over your time as a scaffolder. Can you post it up again as I can't find it.
.
Just out of interest how many scaffolders on here have not recieved the TG20:08 toolbox talk yet
 
dangeruss said:
Don't have a great deal of faith in the NASC these days they seem to want to dictate what goes, how we should work, who we should work for,what tickets we should have.

It used to be the case that if you had started your scaffold training before 1996 you didn't need an NVQ your card would read "Industry accredited" on the back. One of our lads who started his training in 1989 went on his advanced course at Safety and Access in January ,he was told at Safety and Access he wouldn't need to do the dreaded portfolio, he sent off his ticket and was told the 1996 rule had changed and he had to fill in a portfolio and go back for an assesment costing a further £400, when we asked why the rule had changed we were told it was because the NASC had insisted on it.Yet again utter confusion right arm doesn't know what the left arms doing.

We tried to join the NASC and were told we couldn't because we had only been trading for 18 months and you need to be trading for 2 years so this in effect restricts our customer base who seem to think that if a company is NASC accredited all of the scaffolders are on the cards, with all the relevant tickets.Not the case at all in my experience.

I feel so sorry for the lads with ECITB cards if this is the way they are going to be treated. I would argue the case with the NASC that a scaffold ticket /card is not in fact a mandatory requirement in law however you must be a "compeitant person" to erect scaffolding/falsework ,competancy is measured using the following factors -Training ,Experience, Qualifications therefore if somebody has been a scaffolder for 15 years he has shown experience, if that person has also undergone various courses, inductions, on the job evaluations they have proved training, if that same person also has a valid ECITB card thats been accepted for the last 30 years that suggests qualifications .

I really can't see why the NASC and CISRS can't just say that if somebody fits the above criteria they can apply for a conversion/equivalent qualification and replace their old ECITB card with a new CISRC card. For a decent scaff to be sitting at home claiming the dole because of the pig headed attitude of an,lets face it advisory body like the NASC is a disgrace.

Can we not start some kind of petition and send it to the NASC and the CISRS ,after all if it wasn't for scaffolders and their companies paying into the NASC their wouldn't be an NASC and everybody would be happy.

Be free f**k the NASC
Click to expand...
most if not all scaffolders would back your suggestion to the hilt,lets hope it takes off,we should have a yes/no/dont no tick box on this site,Lets start it from this forum
 
I have been working nearly to 3 wks now and apart from some dismantles its been all drawing jobs to erect, so whats the point of training you only have to be able to read a drawing, you throw all your experience away and work to that drawing, you can not deviate from it even if theres an obstacle in the way thats not shown on the drawing, you have to go back to the design engineer and 9 times out of ten wait for another amended drawing, usually another 2 days wait, when you could have put a beam in and punched off of that, just a bunch of robots being programmed, taking away the thought process and adapt to overcome.
Cant even sit in the pub now and draw the job on a beer mat, cause i know the next day theres going to be a nice laminated drawing, which in my opinion is so OTT, just ar*e covering, the norm when you get a new lad only been scaffolding a couple of years and puts 2 ton of gear in an 8 x 5 tower, cause hes not confident in what hes doing.:sad:
 
paddy carr said:
ECITB,CISRS Scaffolders and Training providers.

As you are all aware this is the most topical thread contained within www.scaffoldersforum.com

I am a T&F Advanced Scaffolder NVQ3 ASRE (Not ARSE however thats open to debate).

Why oh why is it allways Scaffolders getting the muddy end of the Stick? Who else needs to go to such lengths regarding Training and ££££££ at their own cost, to be able to go to work and provide for their families.

We Adhere to and familiarise ourselves, to one set of Regs, and lo and behold another set appears.

We are led to believe, 'If you have this Card , its for life' never mind that CISRS thing, it will never take off, heard that also on the Introduction of Hard hats and Safety Harness:eek:

SG4:05, TG20:08 and Appendix A to SG4:05 had us all falling on our Swords.

The Issue with the ECITB cards is wrong in my opinion, and i will debate too the 'Cows come home' that these lads in possession of the cards, should be assessed of competence, rather than Trained to gain Monetary funds.

This subject has a 'Passion' the reason being, it interferes with the concerned parties 'Livliehood' the ability to supply their Families and dependents and feel a sense of pride in doing so. From December, is this, pride to be denied them.

Feelings are currently 'Running High' and in my opinion rightly so. However, in some cases in a need to express their feelings and frustrations,personnel have resorted to personal verbal attacks to posters.

I am not the pope or Mother Terrissa,however, as H&S development officer of the newly formed SCCR, 'Handbags at Dawn' is counter productive to our aims.

I have read every post on this thread several if not more times, i do believe, there are 'Insurgents' however, this is a democratic society, and freedom of speech is the main attribute to this society.

Maybe, just Maybe dave abe proposal of the free training(albeit Government funded) is the start of a Olive branch being waved by NASC/CISRS, should we not look to see how many 'Olives we can harvest before we Strip the branch.

Ragscaff has apologised on behalf of the SCCR for remarks made in the heat of the moment by Passionate People, I have no apologies to make, as i treat people the way i expect to be treated myself.

I would like to think this Dialogue/Debate could still carry on in a civilised manner. I know this will not be the case, as Tensions are Taut as piano wire, But a little retraint on the Rhetoric of named persons would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Paddy H&S Development Officer SCCR
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Why oh why is it allways Scaffolders getting the muddy end of the Stick? Who else needs to go to such lengths regarding Training and ££££££ at their own cost, to be able to go to work and provide for their families.NEVER A TRUER WORD SAID ,WELL DONE.

---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------
peter-driscoll said:
i know exactly what you mean mate ive worked all over england on power stations aswell as sites on my ecitb ticket then now theres no change over for experienced scaffolder to transfer from ecitb to cisrs so now ive just had to pay £900 to do my part 1 again which also means a big pay cut when i fineally find someone whos gonna take a part 1 on to me its pathetic and just a big money making scheme a big bag of b*******:mad:
Click to expand...
YEH ITS F UCKING SCANDOULOUS THAT THEY GET AWAY WITH THAT,say what you want about the french BUT THEY WOULDNT STAND FOR THIS **** THEY WOULD ALL BE OUT.:mad:
 
Had a reply from Mr Jock Simpson Executive Chairman National Joint Council.

A meeting was held on the 7th October at his office, he was not present.

Various stakeholders were, ECITB, UNITE, CISRS & the National Committee for Construction.

I have been invited to obtain a copy of the notes from this meeting.

I will also ask that the SCCR be invited to any further meetings in relation to this matter so we can represent our members interests who were ECITB ticket holders.

Stewart Quinney
Chairman
SCCR
 
thanks ragscaff. my self and animal must have emailed malcome bonnett our local rep for unite atleast 5 times in the last 5 weeks with no reply i even phoned the office last week
and a message was left at crawley for mr bonnett animal also emailed mr bonnett yesterday with no reply as such the only leters you get is vote papers. thank god for your support ragscaff and the sccr and the forum members starting to think this ones gana be a court job.atleast people in the industry starting to point the finger at the ecitb
earlier in the year no body wanted responsabilty once again thanks for the support.
 
We might av a solicitor intrested in trying this case via the courts of human rights , we need as many NVQ ECITB scaffs as possible who dont mind being used in the case, get in touch with the SCCR.
 
look here animal in these harsh times were jobs are scares lads like your self who have been scaffolding for years with the wrong cards are going to have to face facts no c i t b card no job sorry mate got to look out for my self and my mates
 
wazza said:
look here animal in these harsh times were jobs are scares lads like your self who have been scaffolding for years with the wrong cards are going to have to face facts no c i t b card no job sorry mate got to look out for my self and my mates
Click to expand...

Ouch!
 
your intitled to your opinion wazzer card or no card always have work mate when youve
been on the circuit for 20 years as with most ecitb scaffs work not short mate as for
ticket where see when or if it reaches court if theres a change.
 
wazza said:
look here animal in these harsh times were jobs are scares lads like your self who have been scaffolding for years with the wrong cards are going to have to face facts no c i t b card no job sorry mate got to look out for my self and my mates
Click to expand...

How are they wrong cards, why were they brought out over 25 years ago, they are not accepted now because of a change in legislation in the working at height reg 2005, if that had not been brought in, i would still be plying my trade with this card.
 
Forgot to say Ragscaff had a reply from Tom Hardacre, National Officer for Unite,

To answer your enquiry simply. I am trying to get an extention of the ECITB data base in order to give scaffolders more time to registor on the CISRS

Regards Tom Hardacre
________________________________________

Sent: 16 November 2010 07:51
To: Hardacre, Tom
Subject: Meeting in October regarding Ecitb Scaffold Ticket.

Dear Mr Hardacre,
Have been in contact with Malcolm Bonnett, he has asked me to contact you in relation to the meeting last month, in which the Ecitb issue was discussed, in which you were in attendance.

I dont know whether Malcolm has passed on my details and situation, i have held this ticket for the last 10 years, and now find i can no longer obtain work with it.

Hoping you can let me know where i stand at the moment.

Kind Regards
 
Tom Hardacre was the Chair of the meeting on 7th October.

I am to contact him for the minutes. Information given to me from Mr Jock Simpson of the National Joint Council. He has been very helpfull.

Ragscaff
 
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