competent

Lets be honest, the CIS scenario in most cases (where it's an hourly rate as opposed to price work) is a convenient ruse for scaffold bosses to evade paying lads holiday pay and affording them the conditions they should have.
 
Exactly.

---------- Post added at 11:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------
dangeruss said:
Here's a good one for you lads. Safety officer turned up on a job , inspected the scaffold , then told the scaffolder ( 20 years experience) he wasn't competent as he had an ECITB scaffolding card and it wasn't recognised by the CISRS.

The scaffolder then asked to see the safety officers scaffold inspection card. The safety office pulled out a certificate to show he'd done a two day inspection course with a training provider.

Our scaffolding friend then told the safety officer to go f*ck himself as his scaffold inspection card wasn't a CISRS inspection card, he argued that the safety officer could hardly say the scaffolder wasn't competent if he did not have an "industry recognised" card when the safety officers card wasn't either. Interesting point I thought especially when only a very small minority of these safety officers have the relevant CISRS inspection card and training.

To inspect a basic scaffold you need a CISRS basic inspection card unless you have a CISRS supervisor gold card then this covers you. To inspect an advanced scaffold structure you need a CISRS advanced scaffold inspection card regardless or whether you have an advanced scaffolding card. This is what I have been told, is this correct ?
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I can see your point, but they are different qualifications. There is no legal basis that scaffolders must be cisrs trained but in the early days so many others made a dogs dinner of things cisrs become the one everybody expects and asks for. I think gerscaff made a great point regarding product training for inspectors, but remember this training for scaffs doesn't have to be cisrs either.
 
I Always Thought It Did Have To Be Cisrs Alistair, Or At Least Cisrs Approved Training Centres. That Carry Out The Courses.
 
Yeah, cisrs approved for the product training but every man and his dug is into it now. Cisrs is not licensed to train in genlok, the ones that they do have they had to pay for. Generation kept it for their own training division.
 
Oh Ok I Stand Corrected And Will Bow To Your Superior Knowledge My Friend, Happy New Year To You And Yours Alistair.
 
Don't say that gerscaff, I'm rarely right. :embarrest:

Happy New year to you and yours as well.
 
dangeruss said:
Ok, so could it be argued that our safety officer friend who has had a two day inspection course with a training provider (not CISRS) isn't recognised as being competent as his training provider isn't a recognised one. This is exactly the same example as given by the CISRS when they binned of the ECITB lads. I'm all for standardising our industry as long as everybody falls into the criteria including these safety officers who do a two course with "Joe Bloggs Safety training ltd" .

Why haven't the CITB and the CISRS and CSCS told these providers that their qualifications are no longer relevant or compliant if they are the people with the industry recognised accreditation.

On another note if you hold a CISRS advanced inspection card could you simply override a "lesser inspectors" inspection report if your qualifications were the recognised ones and his weren't ?
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.
The only people that require a CISRS recognised card are NASC members. There is nothing stopping any company doing their own scaffold training/scaffold inspection training. You just have to ensure competence. There is no mention in the Work at height regs that you have to have a CISRS card this is all you have to remember. Most construction companies have been brainwashed into believing its a must to have a CISRS card but this is not the case.
 
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money_hungry said:
Lads ill prob get shot down here for my point.

But like it or not EITCB tickets were given out like candy for years yes there was some good scaffolders with them but there was also a lot of lads with hardly any experience with a grade 5 EICTB ticket.
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NO DIFFERENCE THAN CISRS TICKETS THEN:embarrest: ECITB BASED ON EXSPERIENCE YEARS OFF. AND CISRS 2 WEEK COURSE TICKETS GIVEN OUT LIKE CANDY BUT A GRAND A COURSE. NOT EXSPERIENCED BUT TRAINED BUT YOU HAVE THE TICKET. AS FOR INSPECTORS TICKETS IT SHOULD BE SCAFFOLDERS ONLY WE DONT DO A PLUMBING INSPECTION OR BRICK INSPECTION COURSE FOR 2 DAYS THEN TELL THEM HOW TO DO IT.
 
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money_hungry said:
Lads ill prob get shot down here for my point.

But like it or not EITCB tickets were given out like candy for years yes there was some good scaffolders with them but there was also a lot of lads with hardly any experience with a grade 5 EICTB ticket.
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don't wish to gate crash dangers post with ecitb issues but when a ticket has been out nearly 30years it should not have been removed. cisrs and ecitb were being run current hungry!!!there were a few ecitb wonkers but they were sacked or binned early 80s the lads that carried on and learnt the trade were going 20 years after!! as for being shot down your intitled to your opinion money hungry,
 
400KV said:
NO DIFFERENCE THAN CISRS TICKETS THEN:embarrest: ECITB BASED ON EXSPERIENCE YEARS OFF. AND CISRS 2 WEEK COURSE TICKETS GIVEN OUT LIKE CANDY BUT A GRAND A COURSE. NOT EXSPERIENCED BUT TRAINED BUT YOU HAVE THE TICKET. AS FOR INSPECTORS TICKETS IT SHOULD BE SCAFFOLDERS ONLY WE DONT DO A PLUMBING INSPECTION OR BRICK INSPECTION COURSE FOR 2 DAYS THEN TELL THEM HOW TO DO IT.
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Mate there is a little bit of a difference with cisrs you have to go on a 2 week training course whether or not this is any good is upto your own opinion.

With EICTB like it or not they were given out to anybody that asked for them and people who say different are either lying or there management was more strict and actually did it on experience.


This being said the assessed route of entry was also used as an easy way to get a cisrs qualification
 
anyone whose come into scaffolding by whichever means,wouldnt have lasted long if they were useless. unless they held advanced brown nose and blagging ticket
 
frederik said:
anyone whose come into scaffolding by whichever means,wouldnt have lasted long if they were useless. unless they held advanced brown nose and blagging ticket
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Or built the biggest staircase in the history of the world and written a comprehensive guide to scaffolding .
 
It Wasnt Untill The Yts Scheme In The 1980s That Anyone Was Guaranteed There Card, After That No One Seemed To Start As A Labourer Any More, It Really Used To **** Me Off Big Style, I Was Too Old For The Yts Scheme So Had To Do It The Old Way.
 
money_hungry said:
Mate there is a little bit of a difference with cisrs you have to go on a 2 week training course whether or not this is any good is upto your own opinion.

With EICTB like it or not they were given out to anybody that asked for them and people who say different are either lying or there management was more strict and actually did it on experience.


This being said the assessed route of entry was also used as an easy way to get a cisrs qualification
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CISRS assessed route did not give training and does not conform to the WAHRs And is CISRS / NASC approved your views please ????
 
The Assessed Route Is A No Go As Well Now, I Have Heard That If You Have The Assessed Route On Your Card It Will Not Now Be Renewed, Because That Is Not Proof Of Training. I Know Of At Least Forty Or Fifty Good Scaffolders That Were The Assessed Route, Cant Wait To See The Outcome Here.
 
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