Health and safety destroying this industry?

ChrisEng said:
Hi

I suppose I should be glad that H & S seems to have gone mad as it gives me more work, but it is getting ridiculous some of the drawings I am being asked to provide.

Today had to do a detail how a basic 5 board fan is fixed, what spacing for ties to Monarflex, through tie detail, etc. so a Safety Officer can check it on site.

If these people are checking scaffolds they should have enough experience to know what is the correct details for the basic items. :sad:

I want to do drawings of the important complex scaffolds not silly details.

Not sure how you will do some of the scaffolds without harness's.

:What will happen to temporary roofs. ??

All the best out there you guys.

Chris Eng
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As we were talking about on the phone the other day Chris, all good for you. Pain in the arse for us.
That scaffold I was telling you about at Boscombe and how we dont need a design....guess what.
It will now need a design:wacko:
In their infinite wisdom they want to remove the inside ledger and transoms for access.
Might be giving you a call in a day or two, can you PM me your number of please.
Also, can you email me your CV so we can get you onboard as a designer.
Hope thats ok.

Dave.
 
well ive got a new 1. over recent years putlog scaffolds were practicly banished and replaced by independant scaffolds. Now most companies are requesting putlog again and they say you carnt put a price on safety.. these firms are very major housebuilder companies. all to save a few quid....
 
Funny you should say that Steve, we had a customer request a putlog scaffold to reduce costs, we refused to quote it.
 
As far as i'm aware. a lot the big house builders in the north east are still using putlog. i have noticed bellways seem to be moving toward layer though.

on the health and safety thing I remember dave philips, the supervisor at georgian moaning cause he had to write a method statement and risk assesment for a rope and wheel, this was about 7 years ago - we thought it was ludicrous - litle did we know the lunatics would take over the asylum!
 
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In read this with some concern.

Companies and their Health and Safety fellas are reacting to insurance claims. Insurance claims come in following accidents.

I also know that TG20 is quite clear in how a scaffold should be constructed - it is one of the very few items in H&s that is spet out, and not risk based, like most other things in UKL H&S law. TG20 is clear - either build to a basic scaffold, or get a design. Easy. A site agent or H&S chap CAN NOT inspect a scaffold if it is not a basic scaffold and there is no design in place - if he does, he is putting himself in line for a personal prosecution if the **** hits the fan.

I regularly come accross scaffolding that is 10 metres high with no ties. I also see ledgers coupled with spigot pins. I also see no ledger bracign and no sway bracing. I even see ledgers removed from bottom lifts so that windows can fitted.

THAT is what the H&S fellas are contending with. It is not as black and white as what it initially looks like.

As for no more harnesses etc, this is a directive from the NASC and HSE and has been in the pipeline for the last 3 years and will be enforced as of October. SG4:05 already has this requirement in as Appendix A, and shortly SG4:10 will overtake this and it actually prevents the tunnelling method of working. The contractors are responding to this from heavy pressure from the Health & Safety executive. This information has been around for a while and should be well known to all scaffolders by now!
 
SG4 2010 does not dis-clude tunnelling! It only discludes the aggressing to the open edge.

You can advance tunnel, there is a section showing this with pics & everything. This was the main issue of my last meeting with the HSE.

Large Construction companies is also a major issue we are contending with along with the HSE. They are fighting companies on rules across the board, mainly goggles or safety specs. They see this as an issue & should only be used when needed. Same goes for gloves!

If you produce a method statement then you should be allowed to work to it!!

SG4 2010 is due to come out in November hence our meeting in October.

Ragscaff
 
Thanks Ragstaff.

My information came from a few HSE inspectors but I am pleased that they are not fully preventing tunnelling according to your meeting. This is good. There is a time and place for it.

SG4:10, as many updates and changes to codes and guidance, always takes time to become known and longer to be worked to. But I know of a couple of HSE Inspectors in the North West who have already stated they have been instructed to issue prohibition notices on any scaffold contractor not using an advanced guardrail system!
 
The HSE have been hood winked and conjoled with propaganda fead to them by those how have a vested interests---perhaps it is time for the HSE to listen and take advise from those who have the BEST interests of the Scaffolding Industry at Heart, the ones who Erect the Scaffold Structures...

March or Die---SCCR...
 
One of the main bug bearers with the HSE was that information was poor!!

In my report from this meeting I touched on the fact of 'competent person' I said that a lot of people think that means if you have been trained in house for a number of years. They said no, trained & ticketed. So I have also asked for SG4 2010 to state that!!

This was prior to the NASC/CISRS/CITB/ECITB saga, I asked why the are the regs are not showing CISRS trained, they said that was not possible because it would be bias.

I was told if a large Scaffold company trained its staff & recorded that training then issued their own ticket then that would be trained & ticketed!!

Too much information spread over too many documents. We have called for an idiots guide that can be issued to main contractors. I see the step up as dangerous, twisted & broken ankles let alone knee problems.

Advanced tunnel rail is the only way you can erect in a manner you can stil earn from!

The other issue when house bashing who is going to install an advanced rail round a bay window. Need to set different rules for 3 lifts & under (6M).

If its not practible then it won't get used, how is that health & safety?


Ragscaff
 
Sounds good to me ragscaff, seems a bit more realistic 6m and under. Don't know how the boffins will react to that though. As for training, why have you got to be a large firm to carry out your own training? Why can I not do it, save myself a whole load of aggro getting the citb involved and I can guarantee they would learn a whole load more spending 3 weeks in my school than theirs.
 
Just reporting what I spoke about on the last meeting. If there is a training system then it should be endosed by the company employing the working. THen once that workers is able to complete what is on that course then & only then should they be entered onto it!
 
Let us not forget that it is not a Statutory Requirement to have undergone CITB Training---the Statutory Requirement is "Competent and Capable" to Erect Scaffold Structures to Statutory Requirements.

aom is quite correct, He could Mentor/Coach his novice Scaffolders to a Higher Standard of understanding with both Practical and Theoretical Instruction---IT is imbeded and Brain washed into the Heads fo the principal Contractors that one is only a Competent Person if they have a Scaff Card...
 
Also the fact that main contractors has been hood winked into only using NASC members who need CISRS cards :eek:
 
Garry Adams said:
Let us not forget that it is not a Statutory Requirement to have undergone CITB Training---the Statutory Requirement is "Competent and Capable" to Erect Scaffold Structures to Statutory Requirements.

aom is quite correct, He could Mentor/Coach his novice Scaffolders to a Higher Standard of understanding with both Practical and Theoretical Instruction---IT is imbeded and Brain washed into the Heads fo the principal Contractors that one is only a Competent Person if they have a Scaff Card...
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Could be an opening there Gary. Aom school of scaffolding, Forbes better watch his back.:cool:
 
just reading yer last post aom, i think Forbes is retiring at the end of the year, so maybe an opening for ya!! lol
 
scaffy said:
who the **** is kev forbes
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Citb trainer Scaffy. The boy's spend more times listening to his stories about how he built the north sea oil fields on his todd.

---------- Post added at 11:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------
BRU312 said:
just reading yer last post aom, i think Forbes is retiring at the end of the year, so maybe an opening for ya!! lol
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All kidding aside Bru I think it will be a sad day when old Forbes retires, kinda like his style.
 
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