Health and safety destroying this industry?

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regfenster

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Ok its just a rant, but in my opinion the HSE is utterly destroying this industry with its constant changing of safety practises. Today one of our better clients Morgan ashurst/Sindall have notified us that from now on harness and lanyard lines are now illegal under their HS policies and that we're now to use Advance guard rail system, you know the one that slides up from the outer standards, right tin pot piece of crap!. This is getting out of hand to be honest ££££ to erect poxy chimney stacks for their insurance division, its getting beyond a joke. Whats next I wonder, method statement and risk assesment to wipe your ass?.....shag the missus?
 
regfenster said:
Ok its just a rant, but in my opinion the HSE is utterly destroying this industry with its constant changing of safety practises. Today one of our better clients Morgan ashurst/Sindall have notified us that from now on harness and lanyard lines are now illegal under their HS policies and that we're now to use Advance guard rail system, you know the one that slides up from the outer standards, right tin pot piece of crap!. This is getting out of hand to be honest ££££ to erect poxy chimney stacks for their insurance division, its getting beyond a joke. Whats next I wonder, method statement and risk assesment to wipe your ass?.....shag the missus?
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We work for Morgan Sindall in Cambridge, on our job we were stopped from using the rope and wheel as its not in their H & S policy, fair enough if thats what they want but no crane, hoist or fork lift on the job so now our lads are chaining up gear 7 lifts ! mad or what.
 
Yeah its a joke, the type of work we do for them is all the tricky type of stuff, like listed buildings, confined space for erection on collapsing roofs/chimneys, the sort of work that tg20/ sg4 goes out of the window due to the impractical issues that these new regs bring with them, you know we provide them with solutions to difficult projects only for HSE pratt to always condem them with his tg20 handbook stuffed in his hi-vis. Im so sick of it now that I've been thinking about quitting this industry and moving back into engineering cos thats my employment origins.
 
and exactly how is chaining gear safer then roping gear up ,are they imbersils ? how the hell are you supposed to chain up fittings ? you learn to tie your knots on the first day scaffolding as your gonna be on the rope for at least the first 6 months,these idiots should put there heads up there arses and see if they need a risk assesment to have a dump.
 
maybe there realising that they have been getting it wrong for so long now.and need us to bail them out.:cool:
 
philliosmaximus said:
and exactly how is chaining gear safer then roping gear up ,are they imbersils ? how the hell are you supposed to chain up fittings ? you learn to tie your knots on the first day scaffolding as your gonna be on the rope for at least the first 6 months,these idiots should put there heads up there arses and see if they need a risk assesment to have a dump.
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Oh sorry I forgot to mention we are allowed to use the rope and wheel for the fittings as long as the bag is tested to 30 kgs and we don't use knots or hitches to tie it to the rope (has to be a locking carabiner) should have made myself clearer, anyway in these days of mechanical plant its primative to ask people to manually handle materials when easier means are available.

This is my worry and the above is a good example of this, the sccr is trying to standardise our indstry, this is good,clear definitions,clear legislation,clear requirements , all good so far and if accepted a good industry standard . it seems that at present construction companys and their overzealous safety reps are trying to be cleverer than the systems in place and over ride the agreed working practice,this is what is happening now and this is very confusing to say the least, hundreds of company's operating their own interpretations of the current legislation because its unclear and in most cases guidance and not mandatory therefore easy to change to suit their ego's. Make it law and their can be no quibbles or changes. Rant complete.
 
bit what made me laugh was one of our better clients Morgan / Sindall / Ashurst /Lovell
Still the same Sindalls from st albans
 
dangeruss said:
Oh sorry I forgot to mention we are allowed to use the rope and wheel for the fittings as long as the bag is tested to 30 kgs and we don't use knots or hitches to tie it to the rope (has to be a locking carabiner) should have made myself clearer, anyway in these days of mechanical plant its primative to ask people to manually handle materials when easier means are available.

This is my worry and the above is a good example of this, the sccr is trying to standardise our indstry, this is good,clear definitions,clear legislation,clear requirements , all good so far and if accepted a good industry standard . it seems that at present construction companys and their overzealous safety reps are trying to be cleverer than the systems in place and over ride the agreed working practice,this is what is happening now and this is very confusing to say the least, hundreds of company's operating their own interpretations of the current legislation because its unclear and in most cases guidance and not mandatory therefore easy to change to suit their ego's. Make it law and their can be no quibbles or changes. Rant complete.
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I think we're missing the point here fellas. You can standardise all you like, but if a potential client approaches a scaffolding contractor and says - 'Look, we've got this job, we'd like you to price it, but these are our terms of employement on site' - What are you going to do? Say 'Oh sod that mate, the NASC, CISRS, SCCR (or whoever thinks they are in charge at that particular time) say scaffolders don't have to wear gloves/tether their spanners/or do whatever it is that your scaffolding policy dictates' ?
Of course you are not!
Do you think a commercial manager/QS really cares if the lads out on site have to wear gloves? Or long trousers in the summer?
They just want that order mate - and they'll say whatever they have to to get it.
It's easy to knock the HSE/Safety Officers (or whatever it is we call them these days) But the bottom line is that these main contractors are being dictated to by their insurance companies.
Argue the toss all you like - I've tried (and failed) many times. But it's their site, their rules.
 
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phil181 said:
I think we're missing the point here fellas. You can standardise all you like, but if a potential client approaches a scaffolding contractor and says - 'Look, we've got this job, we'd like you to price it, but these are our terms of employement on site' - What are you going to do? Say 'Oh sod that mate, the NASC, CISRS, SCCR (or whoever thinks they are in charge at that particular time) say scaffolders don't have to wear gloves/tether their spanners/or do whatever it is that your scaffolding policy dictates' ?
Of course you are not! Do you think a commercial manager/QS really cares if the lads out on site have to wear gloves? Or long trousers in the summer?
They just want that order mate - and they'll say whatever they have to to get it.
It's easy to knock the HSE/Safety Officers (or whatever it is we call them these days) But the bottom line is that these main contractors are being dictated to by their insurance companies.
Argue the toss all you like - I've tried (and failed) many times. But it's their site, their rules.
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Probably right there Phil, Morgan Sindall also make all operatives wear safety specs as their insurers have specified it. 2 of their employees are taking legal action though as they claim the glasses are damaging their eyes. we will see (parden the punn)
 
dangeruss said:
Probably right there Phil, Morgan Sindall also make all operatives wear safety specs as their insurers have specified it. 2 of their employees are taking legal action though as they claim the glasses are damaging their eyes. we will see (parden the punn)
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Well this will come with time, yes.
 
i don't think it's just health and safety that's ruining the industry, it's the way it's being interturpreted. and the NASC/CISRS seem to be quite happy to watch the indusrty go into decline, because they are too short-sighted to see that they will eventually price themselves out the market.

i'm old enough to remember the old one board days, (no boards if it was coming down on a price), no helmets or hi-viz and it's quite scary to look back and see the risks we used to take, so I think we have made great strides in making the industry more professional. The difference was back then you learned the ropes, and were only allowed to get up there when the bloke in charge said you were ready. now you've got kids with 2 years experience and a basic ticket calling themselves scaffolders and trying to run things. Because of all this harness ********, you've got people in the industry who shouldn't be.

not to mention that all these site agents, are so terrified of being dragged into court, they want you to be wrapped up in cotton wool before you even set foot out there. double laynards, gloves, glasses, it's all arse covering for the company - not for the scaffolders benefit.

With regards to the NASC, they should be standing up to these idiotic rules and saying enoughs enough, they won't simply because it allows them to charge more, due to production being cut down and the old "well health and safety costs" mularky. Scaffolding has always been dangerous, however i personally think it's more dangerous now due to over reliance on the health safety aspect and less on the skill of the bloke doing the job.

like i said to the safety man when he said "we don't want you falling" - i don't want to fookin fall either mate!
 
regfenster said:
Ok its just a rant, but in my opinion the HSE is utterly destroying this industry with its constant changing of safety practises. Today one of our better clients Morgan ashurst/Sindall have notified us that from now on harness and lanyard lines are now illegal under their HS policies and that we're now to use Advance guard rail system, you know the one that slides up from the outer standards, right tin pot piece of crap!. This is getting out of hand to be honest ££££ to erect poxy chimney stacks for their insurance division, its getting beyond a joke. Whats next I wonder, method statement and risk assesment to wipe your ass?.....shag the missus?
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So what do you do when erecting a hanger, fan, cantilever or gantry?
Bleeding muppets.

Harness and lanyards are not illegal just not to be used as a first line of fall prevention.

Totally agree with you on this, the way current regs are going there is just too much left to interpret how you want it.
 
Good thread but ultimatley all restrictions must be pushing the price of scaffolding up .
Do you price accordingly to accomadate these restrictions as all the health and safety does slow the job down as we all know
 
We allrealise that the restictions are going to slow things down a bit, some of it you could possilby up your rates for but I think the bulk of it you just have to swallow if you want to work for the big players.

Keirs with their redtops policy is probably one of the strictest/hardest contractors to work for. With the UKCG they all seem to be trying to out do each other going one step further each time.
 
paul said:
Good thread but ultimatley all restrictions must be pushing the price of scaffolding up .
Do you price accordingly to accomadate these restrictions as all the health and safety does slow the job down as we all know
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The problem we have that this Advance guard rail and step up system that the client wants us to use as oppose to harness and single rail was never priced for from the outset, the quote for their next job was sent out over six months ago, what I've decided to do in this instant is make my own T&F guard rail out of aluminium tubing and stick it on doubles on the outside of the outer standards and push it up each lift before jumping up to fix a single rail. I've gotta admit I really do prefer working for the smaller one man building outfits where they don't know a method statement from a handover cert, work off two boards no single rail on non working lifts and leave that effing harness in the truck, personally I feel safer that way.
 
regfenster said:
The problem we have that this Advance guard rail and step up system that the client wants us to use as oppose to harness and single rail was never priced for from the outset, the quote for their next job was sent out over six months ago, what I've decided to do in this instant is make my own T&F guard rail out of aluminium tubing and stick it on doubles on the outside of the outer standards and push it up each lift before jumping up to fix a single rail. I've gotta admit I really do prefer working for the smaller one man building outfits where they don't know a method statement from a handover cert, work off two boards no single rail on non working lifts and leave that effing harness in the truck, personally I feel safer that way.
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Use the step up system regfenster, its a pain in the ar*e to begin with but you soon get used to it and the lads actualy like them, now although I did catch them placing them along the lift and spanning boards between them to make a hop up to dodge a lift.

I'm afraid the good old days have gone its safety, safety, safety now,common sense has been legislated away.
PS get the step ups with the little alloy ladder not the ones that fit round the standards.
 
Health and Safety

Hi

I suppose I should be glad that H & S seems to have gone mad as it gives me more work, but it is getting ridiculous some of the drawings I am being asked to provide.

Today had to do a detail how a basic 5 board fan is fixed, what spacing for ties to Monarflex, through tie detail, etc. so a Safety Officer can check it on site.

If these people are checking scaffolds they should have enough experience to know what is the correct details for the basic items. :sad:

I want to do drawings of the important complex scaffolds not silly details.

Not sure how you will do some of the scaffolds without harness's.

:What will happen to temporary roofs. ??

All the best out there you guys.

Chris Eng
 
regfenster said:
Ok its just a rant, but in my opinion the HSE is utterly destroying this industry with its constant changing of safety practises. Today one of our better clients Morgan ashurst/Sindall have notified us that from now on harness and lanyard lines are now illegal under their HS policies and that we're now to use Advance guard rail system, you know the one that slides up from the outer standards, right tin pot piece of crap!. This is getting out of hand to be honest ££££ to erect poxy chimney stacks for their insurance division, its getting beyond a joke. Whats next I wonder, method statement and risk assesment to wipe your ass?.....shag the missus?
Click to expand...
try the george roberts scaff step to acheive advanced guardrail it aint that bad when u get used to it only thing is u need single handrail every lift , just had to start doing it on 4metre high council jobs, fuken spewen,

---------- Post added at 08:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

i thats the way the old 2 second rule, been clicked this morn off hse 4 it
 
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