Ecitb scaffs tkt

Soulhawk
anyone can apply for a trainee's card you do not have to attend a part 1 to get this card...
Also Part 1 scaffolders cannot work alone or build jobs on there own and must be under direct supervision at all times, when I say supervision this could be a Part 2 scaffolder or an advance.

The lads who cover for them are just to blame......
 
Dave Abe said:
Soulhawk
anyone can apply for a trainee's card you do not have to attend a part 1 to get this card...
Also Part 1 scaffolders cannot work alone or build jobs on there own and must be under direct supervision at all times, when I say supervision this could be a Part 2 scaffolder or an advance.

The lads who cover for them are just to blame......
Click to expand...
Dave Abe - if anyone can apply for a Trainee card without any site experience then there is a massive flaw in the system ! If you have been in the game long enough to remember the good old days you will know that someone had to do a minimum of 6 months labouring before they were even considered to go on the tools. I say the good old days because the skill level amongst the scaffolding fraternity then, was a hell of a lot higher than it is now.
 
Dave Abe said:
I didnt contradict myself at all, I am stating that the experience should take the young lads under there wing while they are training (not everyone comes out of the ma's fanny holding a spanner)..

I cannot answer for other centres but the centre in which I work in do actually fail and send apprentices back a group if they are not ready.
I agree petrochem is a total different ball game then street work and lads who work on the street struggle when they go on petrochem sites due to the high standard expected (not sayin all do).

I agree with your view as in route of gaining a card to but assessing experience lads the problem you have here is that a number of experience lads lack the knowledge yeah granted know how to erected and dismanlte but, if asked bay sizes or U.D.L of scaffolds etc they struggle and they require this knowlegde and unfortunately or fortunately which ever way you may want to look at it we are governed by the CAPS 609.

Lets be honest what did scaffolders have to do to acheive the Ecitb card, nothing but to apply for it?

If the industry is struggling I put a lot onto the companies who will not train lads, at the end of the day they have an obligation to train there workforce...
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Ok Dave well can you explain via the forum why Your training bays does not even meet the recommened working bay sizes ( 10 mtrs by 7 mtrs)as set out in the new cap 609a book and as to why your facilities dont even comply to the CISRS criteria for a training centre . How you got credititation for Advanced courses is a complete joke,, OH YES JUST REMEMBERED SIMON HUGHES WROTE CAP 609A .... TALK ABOUT SCRATCHING BACKS.. WELL MATE THE SCCR ARE ONTO YOU.....
 
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like a trawler thats had its nets cut nice one steve.
 
I would like to know the fail rate of these courses. I have yet to meet anybody who has failed their course or know anybody who has failed! As the instructors are scaffs themselves they have to start looking at their responsibility and start failing people who genuinly don't make the grade.
But I must admit the lads who I have worked with and have passed are good scaffs.
 
As I said before the first thing a labourer needs to do is stand & walk a 16ft tube let alone a 21. Then carry 5 5fts without breaking something. That should be the entrance exam 75% would fail!!! :nuts::cry:

Ragscaff
 
never known anyone to fail even non english speaking one aremed labourers , its all bout money with training centres in my eyes
 
Dandaps said:
I would like to know the fail rate of these courses. I have yet to meet anybody who has failed their course or know anybody who has failed! As the instructors are scaffs themselves they have to start looking at their responsibility and start failing people who genuinly don't make the grade.
But I must admit the lads who I have worked with and have passed are good scaffs.
Click to expand...

Basicly the only way anybody will fail a part 1 is by not turning up... or the assessment test at the end .. as a part 1 course states "A BASIC INTRODUCTION TO BASIC SCAFFOLDING.) and this does not carry an assessment practical test. But yet a guy whos been on the stations dangling by his b***ox all his his life come december carnt even get a assessment to gain even a basic card... theres all this funding out there for NON NVQ well fine arn't these the guys the 1's who need this funding right now.... Not like these thats been paid for via the dole or direct from prison.. OH YES ITS LIKE THIS DONT PASS DONT GET PAID......F*** off...now my back is up for war....

REGARDS

Training development department SCCR
 
Scaffolders games!!!

Experianced Scaffolders against new ticketed scaffolders!!

1/ Drinking contest
2/ Spotting the talent at eight lifts
3/ Who can get out of paying for breakfast
4/ Standing a 21" on your chin!! ( ally)



Run out of ideas now!!!


:p:toung:
 
Dandaps said:
I would like to know the fail rate of these courses. I have yet to meet anybody who has failed their course or know anybody who has failed! As the instructors are scaffs themselves they have to start looking at their responsibility and start failing people who genuinly don't make the grade.
But I must admit the lads who I have worked with and have passed are good scaffs.
Click to expand...
Dandaps : I can't comment on other areas but although the Instructors in the Teesside area were Scaffolders, they are not what I would describe as quality Scaffolders. Once again, speaking from first hand experience.
 
Will do my best to answer some of these questions for you lovely lads.

Failing is possible and we have failed approximately 12 in the past year. Pass / fail mark is actually 76%, if the candidate fails he can resit 2 weeks later. If they fail the resit then they must redo the full course.

I agree the instructor should take responsibility and I feel that we do this in our centre but cannot answer for anywhere else?

Q. What was the pass / fail for ECITB?
A. Never had one because you got a form signed and stamped by your company.

As for hanging by your balls in a power station or anywhere else, I do understand what you are saying but the ECITB card was never a qualification and companies should have put their men through the correct training during their employment. It is with the companies you should have your beef with and not training providers which seems the case on this forum.

Steve Gregory, with regards to your comments:

You must not have ever been to our centre or someone is feeding you bad information as our bay sizes are actually 11m x 7m and as for Advanced accreditation our centre meets the criteria and is no different than any other centre. May be better than some centres.

SCCR is watching you comment; how childish...... If you look back on my postings I have actually invited the chairman to visit our centre, nothing to hide here.

With regards to scratching people’s backs this may be seen as defamation of character.

To all other forum users:

I stumbled across this forum and after reading the postings I tried to offer lads the free training route however it appears to me that politics is preventing this from happening. So again if you want the opportunity of free training contact me via our webpage or my email dabraham@simian-risk.com if I can help I will.....

SCCR members and forum admin let's promote the free training to help these lads who have been left to fend for themselves by their companies. At the end of the day no one should have to pay for their own course in this day and age, it should be employers responsibility or free funding..
 
first thing is dave stop slagging the ecitb scaffolder off.thats your first problem with your
attitude.secondly as for the ecitb dont you think 15.20.25.years is good enough you keep going on about exsperiance exsperiance.your rubbing blokes up the wrong way.
yeah may be free but its not the money its the ******* insult.how would youy like your
career taken off you.dont bother replying cause i ante interested .
 
Dico,at the end of the day as we all agree experience counts for everything in order to be a good scaff,but like it or not your going to have to do something about your situation regarding tickets if you want to stay employed on major jobs.I agree its another money scam,but give the bloke a bit of slack he only came on here to offer some people the chance of FREE training in order to achieve tickets,like it or not some people on here may be able to benefit from this,for sweet F.A,which sounds a good option to me..
 
well fair enough daz for your comments. Dave yes free funding available but lets be fair there are guys out there who are crying out for this training but to have to sit a part 1 for most of these ECITB guys is rubbish , and you know this whist dave mosely is rubbing his pockets enjoying buisness flights and top hotels and expenses every night ...

This money has been paid by companys and right now the industry should be working at helping these Ecitb scaffs, not banishing them to the dole que for no reason.. maybe you should raise these points at your next meeting .. yes i agree these guys need the theory side teaching but not the practical for which they have earned the right to do an assessed route of entry... to gain nvq level 2 and then sit the Advanced course and 2 day assessment also gaining thier portfolio for nvq level 3 ..

Ok dave as we all know the assessed route of entry didnt used to be nvq based so every guy who did this and do not have nvq on there cards are going to have to start back at part 1 also .. come on you are human surely....

so do we have your backing and simains backing for the SCCR?

Yes all that matters to us is the scaffolders and their futures..

regards

Sccr..
 
Who pays for the FREE training?

What if 100 guys take up your offer!

The system is what we are concerned with, no consultation to the working man!

Any business will take the cheapest route, or the quickest way. The SCCR wants to work alongside the NASC. But we need to have dialogue for that.

The way the training is set out needs an audit or an independent survey done.

I could set up my own training centre & copy like for like but increase the time between tickets & have more involvement from the scaffold firms, but bottom line that will cost the firms more in the short term so we would fail. Long term poor scaffolders will cost more to companies in poor workmanship & god help us more accidents.

Had enough of banging my head against the brick wall now time to sort it out!!

Ragscaff
Chairman
SCCR :eek:
 
Dave Abe said:
I didnt contradict myself at all, I am stating that the experience should take the young lads under there wing while they are training (not everyone comes out of the ma's fanny holding a spanner)..

I cannot answer for other centres but the centre in which I work in do actually fail and send apprentices back a group if they are not ready.
I agree petrochem is a total different ball game then street work and lads who work on the street struggle when they go on petrochem sites due to the high standard expected (not sayin all do).

I agree with your view as in route of gaining a card to but assessing experience lads the problem you have here is that a number of experience lads lack the knowledge yeah granted know how to erected and dismanlte but, if asked bay sizes or U.D.L of scaffolds etc they struggle and they require this knowlegde and unfortunately or fortunately which ever way you may want to look at it we are governed by the CAPS 609.

Lets be honest what did scaffolders have to do to acheive the Ecitb card, nothing but to apply for it?

If the industry is struggling I put a lot onto the companies who will not train lads, at the end of the day they have an obligation to train there workforce...
Click to expand...

Interesting post , Many of the next generation of Scaffs fresh from the training centres with a shiny blue plastic card in their arse pocket will spend all day quoting bay sizes U.D.Ls etc, arguing over the correct way to fix a sway brace in compliance with the latest version of TG:20. Yet ask them to base out a simple job and they struggle throw in an obstacle such as a pipe track or cable tray and its game over .

The CITB accredited centers must take a large proportion of the blame for the general drop in standards in the work place and not place the blame on companies for lack of training when they offer very little if any, support during the NVQ portfolio process other than sit on there arse looking at photos of young Johnny with harness clipped on to someone else's job when its the NVQ which is proof competence .

IMO more emphasis needs to be placed on on site assessment during the qualification process . Ask a Scaffolder to take the lead in a three man gang and base out job and take it up a couple of lifts in the course of his daily work routine weather it be on the street , housing site or industrial plant, this would be a better guide to competence than any training center assessment.
 
It looks like most of us agree then gents.
Practical site experience sure beats 2 weeks in a classroom and training hanger and then being put out into a hostile environment as a trainee !
So why not go back to how it was in the good old days?
Start the new kids as labourers and give them a minimum of 6 months to learn one end of a tube from the other, then put the ones who are showing potential and enthusiasm into the classroom and training hanger to earn their qualification over a 3 year period with most of the time being practical experience with suitably qualified scaffolders.
In this time of intermittent employment and short term contracts, the trainees should be issued with a record book which should be signed by a suitably qualified person to record the actual practical experience and time in employment.
Far too many courses are being dished out to make people into Trainees when there is not enough work to go around for those employed in the industry.
We need to take a step back to the days when the C.I.T.B and the likes of Bircham Newton were handling the training courses and issuing the cards.
It wasn't perfect but it was a hell of a lot better than it is now !!!!!
Also, has anyone noticed the amount of kit some of these Super Trainees are carrying strapped around their waists? Some where I am even have mobile phone frogs strapped on their belts!!!! And, to be honest, they know how to use the mobile phones a lot better than the spanner!!!!!
At the minute, our trade is not in the best of health.
 
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