ECITB and CISRS Assessed Route

Should ECITB and assessed route scaffolders be treated the same?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 36.8%

  • No

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • I was trained. They should not be allowed to scaffold so the money will go up.

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
the assessed route made sense as a way for the ECITB guys to get their cards , maybe thats why it was created , but then it would have become a moneymaker , where guys became scaffolders in a matter of weeks if they had the money...

whats interesting is how difficult it seems to be getting your cards with the training centres in england , where guys are having to do these question sheets that contain questions that lots of people p2,maybe advanced couldn't answer , then we have scotland where its straightforward , do your course , answer the questions, and fill in a small portfolio with t and f jobs youve built....

anybody in england who wants to become a scaff ,, should do their training in scotland and avoid these training centres in england...
 
Let's be honest, getting the correct training isn't exactly taxing, is it?

Any occupation requires qualifications and training - most of them more lengthy and costly than doing scaffolding training.

If lads can't be arsed to get the correct training for their chosen occupation then, in my opinion, they shouldn't be allowed to work in that industry.
 
Havespannerwilltravel said:
So the assessed route was open to abuse? And they complain about the ECITB. The whole CISRS system is a joke.
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feking right it was from my exprience a drug dealer on a small scale few years ago desides to launder his money threw a scaffolding firm starts up get a few of his unemployd scaff m8 working for him with in the year his prt 2 .......explaine that that was threw the assesed route
 
stleger said:
the assessed route made sense as a way for the ECITB guys to get their cards , maybe thats why it was created , but then it would have become a moneymaker , where guys became scaffolders in a matter of weeks if they had the money...

whats interesting is how difficult it seems to be getting your cards with the training centres in england , where guys are having to do these question sheets that contain questions that lots of people p2,maybe advanced couldn't answer , then we have scotland where its straightforward , do your course , answer the questions, and fill in a small portfolio with t and f jobs youve built....

anybody in england who wants to become a scaff ,, should do their training in scotland and avoid these training centres in england...
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Wasn't the assessed route brought in initially for the self-employed? it was mainly held in Erith as there were a larger number of self-employed in the area?
 
It won't matter because 2 week CISRS refresher courses will be starting from Jan 2014.

Part 2's will have to do a 2 week refresher every 4 years - Cost £2,500.00 ex vat

Advanced will have a 3 week course to sit every 2 years - Cost £3,500.00 ex vat.

It's going to be tough, but well worth it, in my opinion.
 
So should all the assessed boys be sent back to yard to service fittings until this matter is sorted?
 
phil181 said:
It won't matter because 2 week CISRS refresher courses will be starting from Jan 2014.

Part 2's will have to do a 2 week refresher every 4 years - Cost £2,500.00 ex vat

Advanced will have a 3 week course to sit every 2 years - Cost £3,500.00 ex vat.

It's going to be tough, but well worth it, in my opinion.
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i think its a good idea but at that price and for that amount of period 2 weeks for part two and 3 weeks for adavnce i thing a good 2 or 3 days would cover the new changes in the industry 2 week ya doing ya full traing again . is the advanced course in the first instance 3 weeks or 2 if two how the fek can they say its a 3 week refresher when it only take 2 weeks to get ther ein the first place lol
 
phil181 said:
It won't matter because 2 week CISRS refresher courses will be starting from Jan 2014.

Part 2's will have to do a 2 week refresher every 4 years - Cost £2,500.00 ex vat

Advanced will have a 3 week course to sit every 2 years - Cost £3,500.00 ex vat.

It's going to be tough, but well worth it, in my opinion.
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I totally agree it will keep the cowboys out.!
(It is lot of money ? That plumbing course was cheaper hmm?)
 
Hard one this,I have been scaffolding 20 odd years and feel as though I should have an advanced ticket given to me,but it just don't work that way anymore,have just this morning booked my part 1 for 29th april in Leytonstone,who knows,maybe I will learn something,doubt it like,but you never know,scaffolding changes all the time,is the norm now to base out with a reverse ledger on the inside,was never heard of when i started out,guess you have to just go with the flow.
 
Yorkshire Lee said:
Hard one this,I have been scaffolding 20 odd years and feel as though I should have an advanced ticket given to me,but it just don't work that way anymore,have just this morning booked my part 1 for 29th april in Leytonstone,who knows,maybe I will learn something,doubt it like,but you never know,scaffolding changes all the time,is the norm now to base out with a reverse ledger on the inside,was never heard of when i started out,guess you have to just go with the flow.
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Your course will be kicker lift mate. The only thing done on any of the courses that resembled real life scaffolding were the shores, truss out, putlog and cantilever drop.

Going back to the legal issue started by Jason Gibbs maybe it can be explained like this: In the UK a full driving licence is required by law to drive a car. If you dont have you can be fined or sent to prison. Therefore a full UK driving licence is a legal requirement. The CISRS card is the preferred training qualification nothing legal about it.
I had always assumed that when the CISRS cards were introduced and we had to sit the HSE test to have our CITB cards(that we were given for life actually) renewed that the information on the back was to advise employers, site managers etc.

For example
  • NVQ3--meant the man had done the advanced course but started training after 1996
  • Advanced--Man had done the advanced course but his training started prior to 1996
  • ARE-Assessed route of entry so experienced but no training done.

    I may be mistaken but always thought this was why the information was added to the card instead of just leaving it gold with Advanced Scaffolder.
 
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I have an original traing booklet from1999 and the front cover states
CISRS
The construction industry
Scaffolders record scheme
Assessed route of entry
Advanced scaffolder
CAP 609C

Its very similar to a portfolio but not as detailed.but proof of previous scaffolding & training is required with a minimum of 5yrs proveable continuous scaffolding experiance, preferably as a lead scaffolder...it could be argued that a qualified WBR whilst sighning off the competance statement, could also state that he has trainned the guy.the final assessors signature. For deeming the candidate as competant so verging on the trainned status anyway..job done so bring back the ARE
 
No matter what system u adopt its allways open to abuse.
I remember working with a lad in the mid 80s same sketch but he'd done a citb apprenship & spent months living @ birtchem i remember him telling me that although he'd done all the courses etc the ticket wasnt fully valid till he reached 21.
 
Havespannerwilltravel said:
But as other posters have said they did it aged 19 so they didnt have the necessary years?
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Just very good on the spanners I suppose!!!
But in truth I've been going since I was about 10
on weekends school holidays etc
And started full time at 15 so probably did have the 5 years needed
 
southernpoofter said:
No matter what system u adopt its allways open to abuse.
I remember working with a lad in the mid 80s same sketch but he'd done a citb apprenship & spent months living @ birtchem i remember him telling me that although he'd done all the courses etc the ticket wasnt fully valid till he reached 21.
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That was the old CECOL scheme probably the best thing done by CITB ever. Lads were given a look at all different trades in the construction industry and then were trained in their chosen vocation. Think the cards only became valid after so many years site experience.
They should bring that back.
 
Havespannerwilltravel said:
That was the old CECOL scheme probably the best thing done by CITB ever. Lads were given a look at all different trades in the construction industry and then were trained in their chosen vocation. Think the cards only became valid after so many years site experience.
They should bring that back.
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Agreed it'd get a load of those lazy kids off their xbox lolo

---------- Post added at 05:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------
scaff369 said:
Just very good on the spanners I suppose!!!
But in truth I've been going since I was about 10
on weekends school holidays etc
And started full time at 15 so probably did have the 5 years needed
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Same with my son had him painting fitting & loading out when he was about 10 ....cheep child labour lolo verging on abuse if u did it now lolo
 
Thats right, when we worked for SGB we had a CECOL lad with us finishing off his training, he wasn't allowed his advanced card until he was 21.When he got the card I think he just used it for chopping up lines of Coke!
 
phil181 said:
It won't matter because 2 week CISRS refresher courses will be starting from Jan 2014.

Part 2's will have to do a 2 week refresher every 4 years - Cost £2,500.00 ex vat

Advanced will have a 3 week course to sit every 2 years - Cost £3,500.00 ex vat.

It's going to be tough, but well worth it, in my opinion.
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well this was gana happen wasnt it!!! after the ecitb was brushed under the carpet.. cisrs have opened a new can of worms to play with if every ecitb scaffolder had stuck together perhaps they wouldnt of bothered with the refresher courses. ecitb tickets were mainly on the industrial side of scaffolding what makes me laugh most industrial jobs dont even get covered on the cisrs courses theres never anything in the way. your not shown how to mod scaffolds on the courses either. so your on a job that needs to be chopped about and standards ledgers moved to get plant out!! unless your exsperienced in the game your just hope for the best. ive gone back and done my part 1 part 2 and a fare few that come on and use the forum. all cisrs had to do was trace back your national insurance and your work history so there would of been no abuse from the ecitb scaffolder. that had there tickets 20 yrs. 4 weeks in a trainning centre to get to part 2 and a years scaffolding is boll!cks but hee hoo someone has to paye for the flash cars and swimming pools that cisrs management have!!! ecitb are still allowed to issue ccnsg tickets thou at a high price 2 day course so you can work on some industrial jobs!!! the whole system is just 1 big rip off. and iam so glad that in a few years iam out of it. you watch the likes of the trainning centres start popping back on the forum when 2014 refreshers start:laugh:
 
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