Training?

aom

aom

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I recently completed my 2 week shadow course for the part 1. I went with an open mind but if I'm honest, thought it would be a bit boring as it's so basic. As it turned out, I loved it and enjoyed almost every minute of it despite wanting to kick one or two off the job grab the spanner from them and do the jobs myself. They tell me I will get over that soon enough but it can be quite frustrating at times. I learned a lot and was able to pass on a couple of thing's that maybe wasn't part of the CISRS criteria but I felt the boy's needed to know. My interest in the training game came about from what I saw as absolutely no improvement or benefit when apprentices came back from their stint at the centre but after witnessing the training first hand my mind is up and down as how to improve it and who actually is to blame when it falls short. The particular course I was on suffered slightly from the sheer variance of experience. One guy felt it could have been condensed to a week which to be honest it could have been but most felt it was the correct length, I felt some could be there a month before it would have sunk in. One thing I am sure off, everyone who was on that course will go back to their work on Monday morning and immediately be able to impress those around them with their new found skills.:cool:
 
Havespannerwilltravel said:
Interesting Alastair. Do you think it should be a harder course with a definite pass and fail or even pass and come back and do it again in a year criteria?
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No. the part 1 should be as is for me, training only, no pass or fail. I think the industry should have a closer look at itself though. I have heard a few on this forum and met a few guys who think a part 1 is a passport to a better job, and I was surprised to find that can be the case. Without the right experience nobody can get what they need to out of any of these course's. Basically, I can't understand why more employers are not investing in training the young team and refusing to take them on without this ticket first.
 
you seem a fair boss aom think a lot of firms dont wana put there men through tickets in case they jump ship after they get there tickets. unless they have a good bond with there employer. my sister runs a pub and she treats her staff like family and she has no problems.onwards and upwards aom
 
Very true Kev, onwards and upwards, always.

I have not figured out exactly how I would improve things but that has to be an issue, the cost to employers signing up apprentices is minimal, I do it all the time and we are as small as they come, if the big boy's did it I reckon the whole training experience could be enhanced. If an employee moves on so what, train some more.:idea:
 
lets be honnest these shareholders of cisrs were very clever they see a openning and took it with both hands but its like everything in life you need money to make money
 
Well Done Alistair, Another Path Opening Up For You Good Buddy, Take The Chance You May Enjoy It More Than Being On The Spanners Yourself, You Are A Fair Employer Who Values Training You May Get A Lot Of Satisfaction From This.
 
Well I've just took on an apprentice through the CSkills/CITB and he begins college in March. He has some experience working with me, and I have tried to pass on some knowledge. Lets see what he comes back with....

I agree with you though AOM. Part 1 should be just attendence based but then there should be an appropriate time between that and part 2 of about 2 years (I waited 6 months).
 
Gerscaff said:
Well Done Alistair, Another Path Opening Up For You Good Buddy, Take The Chance You May Enjoy It More Than Being On The Spanners Yourself, You Are A Fair Employer Who Values Training You May Get A Lot Of Satisfaction From This.
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Thanks Gerscaff, I reckon you may be bang on. As I said I expected it to be a bit repetitive but in actual fact, helping them out did give me a great sense of satisfaction. I wanted to do a lot more but I had to be held back as I tried to correct their every mistake.:embarrest:

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Spunkywads26 said:
Well I've just took on an apprentice through the CSkills/CITB and he begins college in March. He has some experience working with me, and I have tried to pass on some knowledge. Lets see what he comes back with....

I agree with you though AOM. Part 1 should be just attendence based but then there should be an appropriate time between that and part 2 of about 2 years (I waited 6 months).
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If you are anything like I suspect you are, I would say don't expect too much. If you are passing on your knowledge and doing it right, all he will get from the part 1 is the underpinning knowledge as why you do it the way you do it. It doesn't mean it's not worth while as they have to start somewhere and I will be very surprised if he can't come back and teach you something. I reckon you are doing it right and you will already know with the funding in place it is affordable.
 
aom said:
thanks gerscaff, i reckon you may be bang on. As i said i expected it to be a bit repetitive but in actual fact, helping them out did give me a great sense of satisfaction. I wanted to do a lot more but i had to be held back as i tried to correct their every mistake.:embarrest:

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if you are anything like i suspect you are, i would say don't expect too much. If you are passing on your knowledge and doing it right, all he will get from the part 1 is the underpinning knowledge as why you do it the way you do it. It doesn't mean it's not worth while as they have to start somewhere and i will be very surprised if he can't come back and teach you something. I reckon you are doing it right and you will already know with the funding in place it is affordable.
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i know it maby sound daft and maby its another course with more cash to shell out but altering the part 1 course and using that for cisrs scaff lab so they then know hw it should go up and not take weeks or months of dogging hange the change it again for the actuall part 1
 
That's great news, aom! Taken your first steps into passing on your knowledge in a teaching environment.

It is tough - new to teaching you have an exuberance and enthusism that has to be tempered with how much one person can take on (knowledgewise) in one go.

You have to remember what is 2nd nature to you is very alien and new to those learning.

But if you keep keen and enthusiastic, they will totally benefit!

Well done :)
 
Thanks BT, and you are totally right, I wanted to tell them everything in one go and change all their habits. Luckily, I had an excellent experienced instructor who would wind me in and teach me to sit back and watch. At times I thought the course was going no where but it did all come together in the 2nd week. a learning curve for sure but a very enjoyable one.

There are some things I would like to do different or concentrate more on but obviously not entirely sure if it's possible.
 
I reckon you'll be the top instructor in Scotland very soon AOM.
Off the subject slightly do you think if a scaffolder can prove a certain amount of experience they should be allowed straight to the part 2 bypassing the part 1?
 
Mmm, not sure. I think that is what they are trying to clamp down on, even heard a rumour about the ASRE, might even have been on here.

I don't make the rules but am more than happy to play along by them and at the moment the law says trained, so trained it is.

To be honest, my interest was more the quality. It's easy to point the finger and stamp the feet but a bit more difficult to try and do something about it.
 
haha, cheers.

---------- Post added at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------
marra watson said:
i know it maby sound daft and maby its another course with more cash to shell out but altering the part 1 course and using that for cisrs scaff lab so they then know hw it should go up and not take weeks or months of dogging hange the change it again for the actuall part 1
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I understand where you are coming from Marra. It is a basic course and if you are a scaff at all you would whizz through this in a couple of days. The problem I see with that is, there are so many coming through that part 1 with next to no experience so they need to be walked through every step. Also, I have just watched a class struggle with the underpinning knowledge, I did try and link the two aspects in one by telling them that you can't build a job without having some knowledge on things like bay sizes. Our apprentice's do go for what they call a 2 week induction, which is mostly classroom based but does give them a turn on the spanner and they build the 4m independent and a scaff rack I think.

If more people were doing the apprentice route, maybe the course's could be beefed up a bit. There was also a part 2 running along side the part 1 and you could see a massive difference in skill and experience, so as BT has mentioned, you have to be aware of who is coming through the door and their experience level.
 
aom said:
haha, cheers.

---------- Post added at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------



I understand where you are coming from Marra. It is a basic course and if you are a scaff at all you would whizz through this in a couple of days. The problem I see with that is, there are so many coming through that part 1 with next to no experience so they need to be walked through every step. Also, I have just watched a class struggle with the underpinning knowledge, I did try and link the two aspects in one by telling them that you can't build a job without having some knowledge on things like bay sizes. Our apprentice's do go for what they call a 2 week induction, which is mostly classroom based but does give them a turn on the spanner and they build the 4m independent and a scaff rack I think.

If more people were doing the apprentice route, maybe the course's could be beefed up a bit. There was also a part 2 running along side the part 1 and you could see a massive difference in skill and experience, so as BT has mentioned, you have to be aware of who is coming through the door and their experience level.
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that induction thing is what i was thinking of for the cisrs labs so they have a real basic understanding of why and how. how many weeks do your apprentice do at college a year this should be the only way to do it thats how all the other trades do it
 
I think you are right marra although when I heard they spent nearly 2 weeks in the class I wasn't happy but starting to understand why. Our boy's just do the 2 week induction then follow the 6 month part one blah blah blah. Before they go I always spend a bit of time with them to make sure they are up to speed with handling the spanner and get them to build the job in the yard a few times, which I think is good but means they are unchallenged when they get to the centre. That's one of the changes I would like to make, challenge the individuals more, I think they call it differention.;)
 
aom said:
I think you are right marra although when I heard they spent nearly 2 weeks in the class I wasn't happy but starting to understand why. Our boy's just do the 2 week induction then follow the 6 month part one blah blah blah. Before they go I always spend a bit of time with them to make sure they are up to speed with handling the spanner and get them to build the job in the yard a few times, which I think is good but means they are unchallenged when they get to the centre. That's one of the changes I would like to make, challenge the individuals more, I think they call it differention.;)
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do ya not think it would be better for them to do the 2 week induction b4 even starting for a firm give them the heads up with manuel handaling stackign loading a wagon etc i was allways askign the lab what they think need to be done next stop marra have a look at the scaffold what am i goign to need to finish this lift and in what order...... blah blah blah spot on marra no get cracking with in a couple of weeks didnt have to speak to them argh blisss lol
 
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Again I can see where you are coming from and it would work. The only thing I would say about that is, the trainers only have a limited time with them, the gaffers have as long as they want before deciding if they are ready. To get the best out of your limited time at the training centre you need to be already equipped with some level of experience to pull your training into your working world, how else would you know what was relevant to you and what questions to ask?
 
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