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TomP said:
Thanks Ian,

do you think that we will see fully boarded lifts coming in on the next revision of the Sg?

i think this would be hard as the smaller firms will not be able to afford to run, unless trying to stay under the radar?
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5 years is a long way off, a scaffolders safe zone in SG4:10 states fully boarded and a single handrail. The 3 and four board arrangements are gone. If the falls data keeps falling then I cannot see it. I want you and all the scaffs on here to think how many ladders they climb per day beside the ladder step.
 
simian said:
5 years is a long way off, a scaffolders safe zone in SG4:10 states fully boarded and a single handrail. The 3 and four board arrangements are gone. If the falls data keeps falling then I cannot see it. I want you and all the scaffs on here to think how many ladders they climb per day beside the ladder step.
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Its good to see how far the industry has come because a few years ago it wouldn't be how many ladders it would be how many windbraces!:nuts:

As ive said i think the steps aren't as bad as first percieved, they do slow things down but you do get used to them!

Its interesting to hear that fully boarded lifts are to be utilised with them though!
 
simian said:
Good answer there Tom, however if we raise and lower boards we need to be clipped on and we can fall. If we do fall will this mean we now board ev ery lift? that's what I like about reasonably practical it allows the scaffolders some common sense. As an expert witness as well as a consultant, we work on the system of reducing the risk, a 1m fall off a step of which we have none recorded versus a fall from an unguarded traverse. Of course an advanced guardrail or b safe is A better product but you have to cut your cloth to suit and that would be recognised if a prosecution or a claim evolved. Sometimes people and company safety advisors jump to advanced guardrails and fully boarded as it makes it easier for them not you as a Scaff.

Ian
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Stepladders
Before use
Before you use a stepladder, first ask yourself: am I fit to work at height? Then think about the condition and the position of the ladder.

A stepladder in good condition has:

Feet firmly attached
Clean treads
Secure locking devices
Secure fastenings when it is extended
A stepladder in a good position:

Is fully open
Is locked into place
Will not move at the bottom. See good practice in pictures[1]
Stands on a surface that is:
firm
level (see the diagrams below for safe limits on slopes)
clear
dry
not slippery
In use
Only work on a stepladder for a maximum of 15 - 30 minutes at a time
Only carry light materials and tools (up to 10 kg)
Do not overreach - make sure your belt buckle (navel) stays within the stiles
Keep both feet on the same rung or step throughout the task
Make sure you have a safe handhold available on the steps
Avoid side-on working, see good practice in pictures

.
But don't you see that there are a number of conflicts with the scaff step and the HSE guidance on steps. With an average of 14 deaths and 1200 major injuries with falls from ladders/steps do you still think the risk has been reduced significantly. We have a number of HSE inspectors training at our place at the minute I'll ask them their opinion and will respond accordinhly
 
I struggle to get people to pay for scaffolding as it is, I don't care what any safety expert of manufacturer of the latest fall prevention device tells me, "it takes longer to erect a scaffold working to sg4 04 -010" rightly or wrongly in a time of massive resession in this country Joe blogs doesn't care or want to pay for our lads to work in this way safe or not . I struggle everyday as our lads use steps , fully boarded lifts clip on where needed, every other company where we are based don't bother, undercut us daily and worse of all get away with it.

Rather than introduce sg4 10 it would have been better to get all the firms working to sg4 05 first ! as only about 25% of the ones I know do. The ones that just don't bother should be prosecuted by the HSE, we all talk about on this forum but still it continues, we all laugh at the pictures of the lash up's being build but they carry on getting away with it. Nothing gets sorted out I have to say the HSE only seem intrested when something goes wrong, they bang on to us about preventing an accident before it happens, but seem happy to turn up on site after accidents happens.
 
I would say that's fair comment dangeruss, all you can do though is keep your own men safe and hope the other firms you are talking about don't seriously hurt someone. Was there not a thread to grass or not to grass, it might not have been so eloquently put but I'm sure there was? The last couple of times I've been in the company of Mr Hse he reckons he needs informed of these sites as once a report goes in they must act. Some had different experiences using this method.:(
 
dangeruss said:
I struggle to get people to pay for scaffolding as it is, I don't care what any safety expert of manufacturer of the latest fall prevention device tells me, "it takes longer to erect a scaffold working to sg4 04 -010" rightly or wrongly in a time of massive resession in this country Joe blogs doesn't care or want to pay for our lads to work in this way safe or not . I struggle everyday as our lads use steps , fully boarded lifts clip on where needed, every other company where we are based don't bother, undercut us daily and worse of all get away with it.

Rather than introduce sg4 10 it would have been better to get all the firms working to sg4 05 first ! as only about 25% of the ones I know do. The ones that just don't bother should be prosecuted by the HSE, we all talk about on this forum but still it continues, we all laugh at the pictures of the lash up's being build but they carry on getting away with it. Nothing gets sorted out I have to say the HSE only seem intrested when something goes wrong, they bang on to us about preventing an accident before it happens, but seem happy to turn up on site after accidents happens.
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SG4 10 has & will create an unlevel playing field!

Fully agree, the Industry should have sorted its act out first then worked together to progress the working practices! No point running things with the top 200 firms making the rules for everyone else!!
 
I agree with dangeruss and ragscaff there. I still see firms working every day without any form of ppe let alone a harness. They don't work to SG4:00 never mind SG4:05 or SG4:10. Until these firms are brought to book and made accountable, they will carry on as they are.
 
Can't agree more with these last comments.We all know what really goes on in the real world.One man bands undercutting the firms that comply,do the HSE go round with their eyes shut?You can pass scaffolds where ever you are that are blatantly not complying to any rules,but do you ever hear of them getting done?The HSE seem ,well in Liverpool ,to target the bigger local firms,the smaller ones get away with murder.I have never heard of any of them even getting a visit from the HSE and the scaffolding grapevine is alive and well on Merseyside.
 
the hse have been saying since the inception of sg;4 that they are going to do this and going to do that,very little has been done in my eyes.
 
i think its impossible for the hse to target all the small scaffold companies and make them comply , as it is a double edged sword for them in the long run because :

if they make everyone work to sg4:10 and enforce it 100% scaffold prices will become too expensive for joe public and small builders , roofers etc, therefore creating a culture of trying to get work done without scaffold or somekind of cheaper alternative resulting in more accidents than we have now.

they would need to enforce sg4:10 100%
then enforce all builders roofers and joe public 100% to ensure no rise in accident statistics, they cant afford to do that.

so by talking big but turning blind eye in the direction of the lower level work they are covering there butts and allowing the world to continue spinning and probably reducing fatal accidents in a strange way if you get my drift:D
 
I think it is the same as a lot of things , once you register for certain organisations you put yourself up for it. A lot of the small firms fly just under the radar to get a pull , they dont put up sign boards so no one really knows who they are and a lot of the smaller work is cash. I would be interested to see how many accidents happen on these smaller firms but i suppose they dont get recorded.
It is not just the smaller firms that dont comply i have seen plenty of stuff going on on the bigger firms that are supposed to be beyond reproach. if it saves money and no one finds out then its fine.Smaller firms turn up to do 3 sides of a house for roofing work , there is no one there but themselves so they put the job up and go on to there next job.The risks to these lads are totally different to the ones faced on a large site where you have many different trades doing many different things all at once , tower cranes , fork lifts and heavy plant moving , the worst thing these lads have to face is will the lady in the house make them a cup of tea or not.However that does not excuse them from erecting a bad job and handing it over in the same way as you would on a large site.
 
I don't doubt for a second there are many firms out there not complying with some of these regulations but to lay it all at the door of the one man bands does stick in the craw a bit, if there is a regulation pertinent to erecting steel we at the very least make an attempt to comply. We had a bit of a chat on one of these 3 sided jobs for roofing repairs today whereby I felt the boys had totally misunderstood how serious I was about this sg4 thing.

I feel the easiest way to comply with this thing is to accept it in it's entirety and whilst it will be impossible to be behind a hand-rail all the time we must make a serious attempt to achieving it.

Some of the bigger firms have small jobs as well.:eek:
 
superscaff75 said:
i think its impossible for the hse to target all the small scaffold companies and make them comply , as it is a double edged sword for them in the long run because :

if they make everyone work to sg4:10 and enforce it 100% scaffold prices will become too expensive for joe public and small builders , roofers etc, therefore creating a culture of trying to get work done without scaffold or somekind of cheaper alternative resulting in more accidents than we have now.

they would need to enforce sg4:10 100%
then enforce all builders roofers and joe public 100% to ensure no rise in accident statistics, they cant afford to do that.

so by talking big but turning blind eye in the direction of the lower level work they are covering there butts and allowing the world to continue spinning and probably reducing fatal accidents in a strange way if you get my drift:D
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This is not reasonabily practible due to the HSE having there budget reduced by 35% under the new goverment..
 
with such a drastic reduction(wouldnt think its anywhere near 35% thats cataclismic)why are there reports the hse is going to town on everyone or is this information as bad a the december blitz????that never came to frutition why post such sh1te???
 
that budget is from april the tax year..

which means rich tea biscuits instead of choci 1's
 
35% thats over a third not on your nelly NEVER each dept was told to find up to 25% savings but in reality most depts have been cut less than 20%.your making gov policy up as you go along steve.

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

ps thanks for the info on the dates of the new tax year and the implementation of the new budget would never have known.
 
The HSE’s budget will be cut by 35% by 2014/2015, it has been revealed this week. The news was not disclosed by George Osborne in the Comprehensive Spending Review but was released on request to the Daily Mirror by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) yesterday.



A spokesperson for the DWP said: "In the current economic climate, it is appropriate that HSE should be asked to reduce its costs in the same way as the rest of the public sector


Concern over HSE budget cuts - Workplace Law Network - Workplace Law Network
 
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