HSE to close offices

Seriously though, Garry you have made a very good point, don't the other members care or will they just moan about it when it's too late?
 
Swifty

There is a level of commitment and a desire to for inclusion into the decision and policy making process, HOWEVER, without the support of Scaffolders our Industry will be at the mercy of the System---we have all been sleep walking for years only to wake up and realise that we now stand on the very brink of working to an Autocratic Organisation and it's Satellite Companies.

I have seen many changes in our Industry as I am sure you have, it is almost un recognisable from 1972 when I started---I am not averse to change for the better, however, this one needs to be thought out and we as Scaffolders must have a say and contribute to its evolution...

The more Bro's that discuss the better the consequence---I will go with the majority of opinion---Scaffolders have been shitten on for years, however, to feck with eating it too...

Garry...
 
there seems an air of eliteism in scaffolding just now,division,exclusion call it what you want but its not good i see it maybe as a DIVIDE AND CONQUER stratagey,so few have the say over so many.we have allowed private clubs to envelope us for the good or bad you decide,it will turn into a total autocracey if we do not make a stand and i think this issue is where us the scaffs can start to make that stand.ragscaff and the SCCR is the platform from where we(all in the industry not just scaffs)can make our voices heard and make a telling diffrence for the better.
 
brandy said:
I think there should be a law to press criminal charges instead of a civil case resulting in death or serious injury because of negligence of companies to comply with legal requirements for the protection of their workers or others. Have a look on the post Corporate Manslaughter.
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Corporate manslaughter is available but really hard to prove, it Is a police matter not the Hse

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

I think this Hse closure is the loss of admin not inspectors however here are not enough inspectors any way. The inspectors as said on here many times need to hit the small unsafe scaffold companies rather than the ones paying and investing daily.

I cannot see a Hse quango arrangement as they won't have the power and be laughed off site like community police officer
 
i tend to think the HSE should "HIT"everyone no matter the level of compatencey or standing. also the ideas put forward i think are very workable also if this ever dose come to fruitition then the ones being LAUGHED of site will be the ones not complying rumple,not the people working to create a better safer working enviroment for us all(thats a total inclusive all not just if you meet the certain criteria).
 
they say for every soldier at war you need ten factory operatives at home working to keep him operational,take just one backroom HSE staff away and you create a hole,then it dominos affecting the entire operation.
 
I recall that Lord Cullen's Report on the Piper Disaster highlighted the need for CEO's and M.D's to be held accountable for their lack of Duty of Care. As you say hard to prove when a faceless Prime Mover Organisation is Cited for Corporate Manslaughter, hard to pin down the Individual responsible...However, if a Criminal charge results in a Punative and or Penal outcome a Civil action will ensue where damages may be claimed...but then how can one put a price on life and Death---heavy subject...
 
I heard the HSE had taken on a lot more inspectors at the tail end of the year?

I think that the main culprits are the smaller firms that don't do a lot of site work and do a lot of private work.

Although how many of the bigger firms slash private jobs up to compensate for the site work.

I know a lot of it is down the the scaffolders actually doing the job and how conscious they are of doing the job correctly or just not bothering, when there are safety officers on a site a lot of the work is tidy compared to no supervision.

Anybody else seen this?
 
Garry Adams said:
I recall that Lord Cullen's Report on the Piper Disaster highlighted the need for CEO's and M.D's to be held accountable for their lack of Duty of Care. As you say hard to prove when a faceless Prime Mover Organisation is Cited for Corporate Manslaughter, hard to pin down the Individual responsible...However, if a Criminal charge results in a Punative and or Penal outcome a Civil action will ensue where damages may be claimed...but then how can one put a price on life and Death---heavy subject...
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spot on as allways garry that man is god in the offshore world
 
Davie

Usualy the OIM---na your quite right some of these so called Captains of Industry do play God---and think they can hid behind the Organisation and the Philadelphia Lawyers gets them off...

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

TomP

In this case size does matter, Large organisations tend to have a greater awareness and the funds and Man Power to at least on the face of it control H&S Issues, many Smaller Firms try there best and Renegade Cowboy outfits dont give a feck...

aom, posted a good thread on the subject of cowboys erecting Scaffolds and when he pointed them out to a H&S Inspector who was visiting aom region, the Inspector took NO action, citing that he was too busy :eek:...

I am not saying that the Prime Movers are faultless by no means, they can be found wanting too...
 
Garry Adams said:
I recall that Lord Cullen's Report on the Piper Disaster highlighted the need for CEO's and M.D's to be held accountable for their lack of Duty of Care. As you say hard to prove when a faceless Prime Mover Organisation is Cited for Corporate Manslaughter, hard to pin down the Individual responsible...However, if a Criminal charge results in a Punative and or Penal outcome a Civil action will ensue where damages may be claimed...but then how can one put a price on life and Death---heavy subject...
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In simple terms will Tony Hayward of BP be prosecuted for what happened in April in the gulf
 
rumple WILL he or SHOULD he?.....i as a mere mortal of this world wouldnt know if he will as i am not privy to american law,SHOULD he be prosecuted well as everybodys diffrent and unique we will all have diffrent answers on that issue i belive mate.all i wold say there was a shocking loss of life and i belive there must be someone brought to account.
 
Rumple, The law on corporate manslaughter does not have to be confined to the actual corporation itself, but could include a director,or senior manager of a company,big or small. Penalties of imprisonment,monetary fines and disbarment of such a person from acting again in such a position, while also the rights of the deceased family to claim compensation. I think it also should be extended to include serious injury of the paralytic kind. The police investigation would be in conjuction with the HSE to determine blame and in the event of a prosecution in a criminal court and conviction, previous breaches of H/S regulations could be submitted as evidence. Such action would send a very strong message out to offenders, gone are the days of a slap on the wrist and a fine and to minimise the bad publicity just change the name of the company. It only takes the will to enforce the ethos "you are entitled to earn your profit from the sweat of your workers, but not their blood"
 
brandy said:
Rumple, The law on corporate manslaughter does not have to be confined to the actual corporation itself, but could include a director,or senior manager of a company,big or small. Penalties of imprisonment,monetary fines and disbarment of such a person from acting again in such a position, while also the rights of the deceased family to claim compensation. I think it also should be extended to include serious injury of the paralytic kind. The police investigation would be in conjuction with the HSE to determine blame and in the event of a prosecution in a criminal court and conviction, previous breaches of H/S regulations could be submitted as evidence. Such action would send a very strong message out to offenders, gone are the days of a slap on the wrist and a fine and to minimise the bad publicity just change the name of the company. It only takes the will to enforce the ethos "you are entitled to earn your profit from the sweat of your workers, but not their blood"
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Corporate manslaughter has been in England for four years and I am yet to see a prosecution, if anyone has please put it on here
 
and thats the way i would like it to stay as if there is to be one then a person has lost their life in their line of work lets hope this dose not happen but if dose so then i hope the appropiate action is taken.
 
rumple

I could not possibly pre-empt the out come of case pending, however, with the severity and Public out cry I would expect that the Public Prosecutor will ask for the most appropriate Judgement and full force of the Law available on the U.S. Statute Books for the Breach...If the Pres says Jail Time he will go down...
 
According to research by Liverpool University just 32% of reportable injuries to employees and 12% of those to the self employed were actually reported to the H.S.E.
How would they cope if they were all reported?
 
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