Has the job changed

Just been flicking through a few of the posts and I was wondering what difference it would have whether scaffolders were classed as skilled, semi-skilled or unskilled?

I can just imagine it now - Supervisor announces to a gang that they are no longer 'semi-skilled', but 'skilled' workers...."Oh ok, so do we get more money now?"

"Er, no"

Oh that was worth the fight then, wasn't it....
 
1969scaff said:
... get them down a drop with no harness or walking the steel to put edge protection up,that's what gave you that buzz.OK your where dicing with death but that thought never entered my head.You where doing a job that others would shi- themselves doing...
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Aye, are we all really just adrenaline junkies?? Needing the "buzz" of danger to make us feel alive? :unsure:
 
1969scaff said:
Got to agree with Riggers comments.I still think that to-days scaffolders don't have any bottle, get them down a drop with no harness or walking the steel to put edge protection up,that's what gave you that buzz.OK your where dicing with death but that thought never entered my head.You where doing a job that others would shi- themselves doing.To-day its all to controlled no real bottle needed,glad I was around when scaffs where scaffs!!
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You're right to an extent. Plenty don't have any bottle, probably because they have only done a dropper while harnessed up or edge protection from a cherry picker. There's nothing wrong with that though, it's just that safety measures needed introduced. What is poor though is the number of ticketed 'scaffolders' who are totally incompetent. The types that if held a job other than an independent they look completely vacant
 
phil thats not the point mate , its the fact that every other mug thinks they are better then us " fu ck it or fight it scaffolders " or jhob is highly skilled and that should be recognised :)
 
Just for the record I renewed my insurance and for my occupation Scaffolder was found under skilled trade.

And it all gone quiet over there,
Oh it's all gone quiet over there, ohhh it's all gone quiet, all gone quiet , all gone quiet, all gone quiet phill181
 
For my part its not about money, over the years I would say I earned more than proper so called tradesmen on most jobs I was on, and I pay my lads the equivelent of the trades on the jobs we work on, gives them a bit of respect its only what we all want. but you've got to earn it by knowing your job.
 
I think you'd have to be a thick Cnut to go to work the next day and say I'm skilled today can I have more money!!! Hahaaaaaa

If your good at your job you don't have to prove it. Just go to work and take the money.
 
The original question was "Has the job changed"
the only answer from any sane person is YES

The next question is; "has it changed for the better"in some respects it has in others it is just the same or worse more of this later

scaffold operative,semi skilled,skilled,tradesman, does not count a toss to me what you call me

£6, £10, £15, £20, £25, £30 per hour does.You get paid on your ability and knowledge as well as on the amount of graft you put into any job,

respect you either command respect or you don't it does not come with a title,
tradesman,supervisor,contract manager,safety inspector/consultant,owner,MD are just the same as semi skilled, skilled,

You can either do your job or you are winging it on the backs of others sadly there are a lot of people making a living from the scaffolding industry that have very little knowledge of the game.
 
mikedench said:
Just for the record I renewed my insurance and for my occupation Scaffolder was found under skilled trade.

And it all gone quiet over there,
Oh it's all gone quiet over there, ohhh it's all gone quiet, all gone quiet , all gone quiet, all gone quiet phill181
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Actually I went for a shower.

So your insurance company deems scaffolding to be a 'skilled' profession? Congratulations.

I've done a little bit of scaffolding myself, so maybe I can sleep a little better tonight knowing that someone out there thinks I'm a 'skilled' person - I've been worrying about nothing else for the last 20 years. My life is now complete. I can walk down the road with my head held high. I no longer feel like a second-rate citizen. I don't have to 'glamorise' my life by pretending to be a carpet layer or a bus driver when I meet new people socially.

Give it a rest mate.
 
The point is to get scaffolding recognised as a fully skilled trade!! I am not an educated man, I have my pride. I see what I do as skilled.

We are not trying to change things over night, the fact is if the training was based on more of a skilled basis, it would be harder to get a ticket, then the skill level would increase, then the demand would increase then the wage would improve. CISRS is a record scheme not a training scheme!!

Most employers would pay more for a better skilled force,, unless you dont care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stewart Quinney
 
ragscaff said:
The point is to get scaffolding recognised as a fully skilled trade!! I am not an educated man, I have my pride. I see what I do as skilled.

We are not trying to change things over night, the fact is if the training was based on more of a skilled basis, it would be harder to get a ticket, then the skill level would increase, then the demand would increase then the wage would improve. CISRS is a record scheme not a training scheme!!

Most employers would pay more for a better skilled force,, unless you dont care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stewart Quinney
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Stewart

It's just a meaningless title. It doesn't mean anything.

Yes, the training on offer from the CITB is rubbish. Yes, more emphasis needs to be on training and educating people properly in our industry - Absolutely.

But by calling a scaffolder 'skilled' insead of 'semi-skilled' ain't gonna change anything. Not a sausage.

Do the majority of scaffolding employers want to pay more money for better training? No. - If they did, they'd already be doing it....
 
phil181 said:
Stewart

It's just a meaningless title. It doesn't mean anything.

Yes, the training on offer from the CITB is rubbish. Yes, more emphasis needs to be on training and educating people properly in our industry - Absolutely.

But by calling a scaffolder 'skilled' insead of 'semi-skilled' ain't gonna change anything. Not a sausage.

Do the majority of scaffolding employers want to pay more money for better training? No. - If they did, they'd already be doing it....
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Yes employers will go for the cheaper option!!! But there is no other!!

What choice.

The CISRS scheme is not working & the new apprenticeships is s**t.

That is what we are saying.

Improve training, make it harder to get a ticket,(because it is) then less spanners on the scene more money.

But more importantly, more training , more skill, fully skilled tradesmen!!

Stewart
 
ragscaff said:
Yes employers will go for the cheaper option!!! But there is no other!!

What choice.

The CISRS scheme is not working & the new apprenticeships is s**t.

That is what we are saying.

Improve training, make it harder to get a ticket,(because it is) then less spanners on the scene more money.

But more importantly, more training , more skill, fully skilled tradesmen!!

Stewart
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So how would that work then?

Would all current CISRS ticket holders have to do the new courses? That sounds familiar.

What would happen when work picks up again and all the scaffolding firms start screaming about the lack of qualified scaffolders?

I'd imagine they'd have to invest heavily in further training (Whilst all the time trying to compete with these cowboys that the industry is saturated with)

Who would pay for all of this expensive training? Oh yeah, their employee's...
 
Who said anything about extra training!!

Some do not qualify now.

May be a case of rejecting & re-assessing.

Seems to funding in place for some to bring new blood through.


Why not in enhance what we have got & then grow a new breed!!
 
Must be!!

A lot of guys say no change to training because its a cost!!

Yet the same guys say tough **** to ECITB scaffolders.

They have years of experience.

No middle ground!!

Seems like Mr Magoo to me :laugh::D
 
Quote Phil 181. Do the majority of scaffolding employers want to pay more money for better training ? , no.

I agree with that Phil, but I see these so called training centres as assessors only, training should be given on the job and when you deem the candidate ready you send him to be assessed by competent independent testers, much like you would sit a driving test to prove competency to drive on a public highway. There should be no need to increase the fee, just the competency.
 
brandy said:
Quote Phil 181. Do the majority of scaffolding employers want to pay more money for better training ? , no.

I agree with that Phil, but I see these so called training centres as assessors only, training should be given on the job and when you deem the candidate ready you send him to be assessed by competent independent testers, much like you would sit a driving test to prove competency to drive on a public highway. There should be no need to increase the fee, just the competency.
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Yes it all sounds very romantic.

But who pays the lads whilst they are being trained and who pays the 'indepenent testers'? If these individuals were as useless as the instructors at the current CISRS approved training centres, then what would change?

I understand and agree with your points. But I am just being realistic.
 
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