Ecitb scaffs tkt

spot on paddy carr.best read ive had for a long time m8.they should ave it nailed to there desk m8.
 
longest post on here , good reading paddy and how is garry these days
 
you ok ragscaff.had any new emails m8.
 
The problem is there is not many offshore jobs available. All core crew slots taken so only top up labour in the Summer for the good weather months. Recessions have hit platforms as well with lots of maintenance budgets slashed. I did manage 4 rigs off Aberdeen and the training the core crew lads have had over the years is unbelievable, they must be the best qualified workers in the world!! As you know when new starts come on they will be identified with green hats, put into squads that have years of experience on the platforms.
 
dico said:
you ok ragscaff.had any new emails m8.
Click to expand...

Fine M8

No answers as yet, no real surprise either. The next correspondence to the NASC will be from the new committee of the S.C.C.R. asking them to explain themselves prior to proceeding with investigations into monopolies commission, unfair government funding, trades description, data protection act & operating as a Confederation when they are set up as a Federation for pure Profit & not to help the Industry!!

Something like that anyway.

Oh yeah the above is without prejudice!!!

Ragscaff :D :nuts:
 
if i lived nearer ragscaff.id buy you a pint m8.
 
Had a reply from the CITB

"Dear Mr Quinney

Thank you for your message via the ConstructionSkills website.

The CISRS and ECI Skills database have always been 2 completely separate
cards schemes. ECI cards have never been recognised by or transferable
with CISRS. ECI cards are issued against experience only as opposed to
formal training, S/NVQ achievement and Health & Safety testing.

An ECI card holder would be required to complete his Part1, Part2, S/NVQ
level 2 and the Health & Safety test if they wished to obtain a CISRS
Scaffolder card.

We are aware that ECITB have ceased issuing cards but any complaints on
this issue must be directed to them as this was that body that issued
the card in the first place.

If you wish to discuss CISRS issues further please email or write to
david.mosley@nasc.org.uk as the NASC manage the CISRS scheme.

Regards

Garry Mortimer
QtW Co-ordinator"

NOW THERES A SURPRISE

WHAT A JOKE< TALK ABOUT BEING BED TOGETHER!!! :eek::eek: :eek:


Ragscaff
 
E-mail sent back to the CSSkils
Dear Mr Mortimer,

I am very sad to see this response.

Some of our members have been in the Industry for 15 to 20 years with a card that was a card for life. The hold the NASC has on CISRS is the main issue in regards the ECITB card being dropped.

I was under the impression the CITB or ConstructionSkills was the governing body in regards training. You have allowed the NASC to undertake the Scaffold card scheme as a private company. Why is it they have total control & this is the only scaffolding qualification. In the eyes of the HSE you cannot dictate the training in this way you should have alternatives.

To be bold 60% of Part 1 scaffolders learn nothing on their course, we have a large amount of guys willing to confirm this. 40-50% of part 2 scaffolders are not able to base out on their own. How can you then say an experienced man with 15 years behind them has no option than to spend £1,500 + to gain a ticket he already had. They should just do the NVQ & assessment at the level they are experienced at!!

We have tried the NASC route & have hit a brick wall we now wish to take this to a complaints commission. Can you please let me know who to contact in this regard.

Also who regulates the training, the time scales are not realistic to the knowledge needed, how can anyone justify giving an advanced card after two years. This should be no less than 5 years closer to seven. Part 1 should not occur until 1 years labouring with a company entering you into the course & part two the same after a further year once completing the part 1.

You talk about the CISRS being superior to knowledge, first point I would raise is the courses are 90% attendance only & the on site assessment is one day, after part 2!! How do you justify one day is going to cover a part 2's knowledge yet someone with 15 years experience & company endorsements is treated in this very,very poor way.

This has already put people out of work they have lost their livelihoods.

How do we go about setting up an independent review of the way the NASC run the CISRS. How did the (until now) only industry body get control of the only training scheme??

Look forward to your reply.

Regards Stewart Quinney

Scaffolders Confederation for Consultation Rights working with the Scaffolders Forum



Ragscaff:mad::mad:
"
 
ragscaff said:
Had a reply from the CITB

"Dear Mr Quinney

Thank you for your message via the ConstructionSkills website.

The CISRS and ECI Skills database have always been 2 completely separate
cards schemes. ECI cards have never been recognised by or transferable
with CISRS. ECI cards are issued against experience only as opposed to
formal training, S/NVQ achievement and Health & Safety testing.

An ECI card holder would be required to complete his Part1, Part2, S/NVQ
level 2 and the Health & Safety test if they wished to obtain a CISRS
Scaffolder card.

We are aware that ECITB have ceased issuing cards but any complaints on
this issue must be directed to them as this was that body that issued
the card in the first place.

If you wish to discuss CISRS issues further please email or write to
david.mosley@nasc.org.uk as the NASC manage the CISRS scheme.

Regards

Garry Mortimer
QtW Co-ordinator"

NOW THERES A SURPRISE

WHAT A JOKE< TALK ABOUT BEING BED TOGETHER!!! :eek::eek: :eek:


Ragscaff
Click to expand...
I think now we all have an e-mail address ,the forum members who can,should e-mail Mr Mosley every day with the same message i.e. not happy with the way the CISRS won't recognise ecitb scaffs (we could make some sort of standard form) see how long he can stand 2000 people on a daily basis e-mailing him. Least ways if nothing happens we are no worse off and he'll have the hastle of having to change his e-mail address, business cards,letterheads general pain in the ar*e stuff ,then we do it again ha ha ha
 
ragscaff said:
Had a reply from the CITB

"Dear Mr Quinney

Thank you for your message via the ConstructionSkills website.

The CISRS and ECI Skills database have always been 2 completely separate
cards schemes. ECI cards have never been recognised by or transferable
with CISRS. ECI cards are issued against experience only as opposed to
formal training, S/NVQ achievement and Health & Safety testing.

An ECI card holder would be required to complete his Part1, Part2, S/NVQ
level 2 and the Health & Safety test if they wished to obtain a CISRS
Scaffolder card.

We are aware that ECITB have ceased issuing cards but any complaints on
this issue must be directed to them as this was that body that issued
the card in the first place.

If you wish to discuss CISRS issues further please email or write to
david.mosley@nasc.org.uk as the NASC manage the CISRS scheme.

Regards

Garry Mortimer
QtW Co-ordinator"

NOW THERES A SURPRISE

WHAT A JOKE< TALK ABOUT BEING BED TOGETHER!!! :eek::eek: :eek:


Ragscaff
Click to expand...


Still cant give a straight answer:mad: , why cant ECITB scaffolders join the CISRS at their appropriate skill level by NVQ achievement level 2 or 3. This can be done via portfolios and assessment in the same way as CISRS scaffolders. NVQs are the bench mark for competence not part 1 part 2 and advanced courses which are achieved by attendance only !

For Mr Mortimer's info the vast majority of ECITB scaffs hold up to date safety passports which is accepted as an alternative to the H&S touch screen test.
 
dave mosley is the man who has overall control of training and the do's and dont's

I think he maybe gtting ichy feet...... ill have 20 quid he doesnt turn up for the meeting in oct....
 
XxIANxX said:
.
ECITB & CISRS are two seperate bodies.
Scaffolding training started in the UK in the 1960’s but formal training and the issue of Scaffolders “card” started in earnest in 1979 when the Part 1, Part 2 and Advanced training courses were introduced by the Construction Industry Scaffolders Record Scheme (CISRS). In 1996 National Vocational Qualifications (NVQ) were introduced and since then there was a requirement for Scaffolders to complete both the practical “off the job” training courses and the NVQ (which is an assessment of competence) before being issued with a CISRS card.

CISRS was the first trade to affiliate to the Construction Skills Certification Scheme (CSCS) in August 1999 and in April 2001 CISRS introduced a card renewal scheme which requires card holders to update their card every 5 years after completing an up to date CSCS Health and Safety touch screen test. In 2007 the requirement was introduced for Scaffolders to be training separately in systems scaffolding (eg: Cuplok, Kwikstage, Layher, Haki etc) along with Scaffolding Supervisor training and in 2010 CISRS introduced Basic and Advanced Scaffold Inspection training. CISRS is the preferred scaffolding qualification of all the major organisations including CSCS, NASC, HSE, UKCG, T&G, UCATT and the largest scaffold systems manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Very informative Ian, good to have the facts,why did they change to the nvq system in 1996,what was wrong with the old way ?
 
XxIANxX said:
.
ECITB & CISRS are two seperate bodies.
Scaffolding training started in the UK in the 1960’s but formal training and the issue of Scaffolders “card” started in earnest in 1979 when the Part 1, Part 2 and Advanced training courses were introduced by the Construction Industry Scaffolders Record Scheme (CISRS). In 1996 National Vocational Qualifications (NVQ) were introduced and since then there was a requirement for Scaffolders to complete both the practical “off the job” training courses and the NVQ (which is an assessment of competence) before being issued with a CISRS card.

CISRS was the first trade to affiliate to the Construction Skills Certification Scheme (CSCS) in August 1999 and in April 2001 CISRS introduced a card renewal scheme which requires card holders to update their card every 5 years after completing an up to date CSCS Health and Safety touch screen test. In 2007 the requirement was introduced for Scaffolders to be training separately in systems scaffolding (eg: Cuplok, Kwikstage, Layher, Haki etc) along with Scaffolding Supervisor training and in 2010 CISRS introduced Basic and Advanced Scaffold Inspection training. CISRS is the preferred scaffolding qualification of all the major organisations including CSCS, NASC, HSE, UKCG, T&G, UCATT and the largest scaffold systems manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info but is all good & well having this information but the facts are someone with no scaffolding experiance can enter this scheme & achive an advanced card in two years!! For one there is four sectors to OUR industry, Domestic, Industrial, Specialist & Offshore. As Paddy has already shown the Offshore needs specific training as do the other three catagories.

System is a piece of p**s yet you have to do two day courses on these!!

Wonder why, back handers!!

Lets get real & up the time served training so we get experiance with skill + training. If not over the next 5 years you will see an increase of accidents in the scaffolding sector when all the Dinosaurs like me go to Tesco & collect trollies for more money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::push:


Ragscaff
 
XxIANxX said:
.
I'm not sure mate, but with the need for on going training and card renewal you can only come to the conclusion "money to be made"
Click to expand...
I didn't want to say that as I know your in the training business,but it did spring to mind,especialy the whole renewal thing. Its allowed the nasc,cisrs to become a self perpetuating organisation ,I know I sound a bit negative about the NASC and the CISRS especialy as I have 2 CISRS cards, but some of the strokes they are trying to pull "just aint fair" (the pavement licence stroke in particular) they have the power to honour ecitb cards if they realy wanted but they don't as its potential revenue lost. Worst thing is some decent lads may well leave the industry for good rather than face the humiliation of re-training not withstanding the fact its bloody expensive.
 
dangeruss said:
I didn't want to say that as I know your in the training business,but it did spring to mind,especialy the whole renewal thing. Its allowed the nasc,cisrs to become a self perpetuating organisation ,I know I sound a bit negative about the NASC and the CISRS especialy as I have 2 CISRS cards, but some of the strokes they are trying to pull "just aint fair" (the pavement licence stroke in particular) they have the power to honour ecitb cards if they realy wanted but they don't as its potential revenue lost. Worst thing is some decent lads may well leave the industry for good rather than face the humiliation of re-training not withstanding the fact its bloody expensive.
Click to expand...

The latest is the renewable inspection tickets !
 
does any body no how much the course was 30 yrs ago .
 
Proberbly put up by a part 2 who did not know what he was doing!! Even if it was tube & fitting might still have been the same. Seen timber frame with three to four inside boards unsupported!! 5 lifts!!.

This is down to no drawings & the site agent or timber frame builder asking for that to be done & the inexperianced scaffolder doing it. More than likley:unsure::unsure:


Ragscaff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom