daffy
Well-known member
maybe it's one of the guys on here who feel they are worthy of a better hourly rate than £10 per hr
Charlie
Well-known member
This thread only proves and reinforces what most of us already know........
........a card of any colour does not make a Scaffolder....
I already know many Good Scaffolders who can't get on a job because they have the wrong card........and going back a bit, I know of many Great Scaffolders who would never get any work because they never had a card at all......
What a load of Bollox............
........a card of any colour does not make a Scaffolder....
I already know many Good Scaffolders who can't get on a job because they have the wrong card........and going back a bit, I know of many Great Scaffolders who would never get any work because they never had a card at all......
What a load of Bollox............
Liverlad86
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2010
- Messages
- 43
- Reaction score
- 0
Dave abe! Brilliant trainer.. Credit to the centre!
I heard the instructer at the center i went to was susspended or fired cos he failed a bloke who could not build the tower on the part 2. it was another instucter that got us to make the complaint
andyf8686
Well-known member
welcome tradman
sounds like you got well played
sounds like you got well played
allan666
Well-known member
i wonder who tradman works for
well ive just got in working my butt off today as a advanced ecitb what ever you wana call it ticket!!! glad youve got the information ian coz whats good for the gander is good for the goose diference myself and many other ecitb have been spinning spanners for over 2 decades grips my s!it information like this
andyf8686
Well-known member
NO1 I bet lol
J
Jason-Gibbs
Guest
This thread only proves and reinforces what most of us already know........
........a card of any colour does not make a Scaffolder....
I already know many Good Scaffolders who can't get on a job because they have the wrong card........and going back a bit, I know of many Great Scaffolders who would never get any work because they never had a card at all......
What a load of Bollox............
Thats 100% true. I feel sorry for the guys who can do the job, but dont have the card to prove it, i really do.
But:
Times are changing and we ALL have to change with them.
Take this Forum? - Even 5 years ago, we'd be laughed off the building site we was on, if we mentioned that we sit behind a computer screen and talk b0llocks, feed info and chit-chat to each other day in day out.
But you can half and half talk to people who dont use it and they sound fairly interested, especially if you add that each day there is some 30+ jobs advertised here...
5 years from now, id bet that nearly EVERY Scaffolder will use this and others like it to post random stuff, find old work mates and ask for help. (Its a fantastic place, this Forum... something that this game needs as a way to help us all have a say and biitch about things that aint right.)
10 years, who knows? - Maybe we'll all be talking via live feeds direct from our iPhone 12's, lol.
Anyway, back to topic:
Times are changing.
RECOGNISED qualifications are ALL that employers want nowadays.
Its all bullshiit and a moneymaking con, but Firms insurance companies want to see those little cards and other tickets when they do their audits and stuff.
I dont need a ticket to tell me that im a Scaffolder... Ive been one for a VERY long time, but you cant say that when you phone up for a job, can you?
I got all my tickets sorted and grafted to earn the extra cash to pay for them myself, as i understood the importance of needing them.
No ticket = No job.
Its not right or fair, but its how things are and no matter how much we complain - Things are not going to change.
All any of us can do is to make sure that we keep ahead of the game and not let ourselves be caught out.
Il have a bet right now that in barely 5 years from now, unless you have a CITB/CISRS recognised Part 2 ticket, you wont be allowed to put a belt on, let alone put a Scaffold up.
I hope im wrong, but i dont think i will be... :worried:
I agree that the standard of training for scaffolders is pretty poor in this country, but if we don't have recognised qualifications then how are we supposed to assume anyone's level of competency?
I think the key point here is that we do need a training and record scheme for scaffolders.
It's just that the current scheme is complete pony.
Assessed routes are not ideal, because the scheme is often abused as a quick way of obtaining a ticket. Lads would also be in a catch-22 situation as these days they would generally need the ticket to be able to build the jobs and get the experience to do the assessment in the first place. It would also contravene the WAHR's.
Training centres are not ideal either in the current format, as a TC may be hesitant to fail lads and potentially lose further business from any particular client. Having a high fail rate may also be percieved to be as a result of poor training in the first instance.
I think the key point here is that we do need a training and record scheme for scaffolders.
It's just that the current scheme is complete pony.
Assessed routes are not ideal, because the scheme is often abused as a quick way of obtaining a ticket. Lads would also be in a catch-22 situation as these days they would generally need the ticket to be able to build the jobs and get the experience to do the assessment in the first place. It would also contravene the WAHR's.
Training centres are not ideal either in the current format, as a TC may be hesitant to fail lads and potentially lose further business from any particular client. Having a high fail rate may also be percieved to be as a result of poor training in the first instance.
Last edited:
fair comment from you phill and you jason firstly jason iam 46 and not 30 like your self ive also done the rounds so probably got 15 years more on the field as you mate for assesed route phill if you had the proof of competencey from your employer of your skills and rate youve been receiveing cant see it being a problem iam not talking ranjitas scaffolding services iam talking proper reconised firms no ticket no job fair play!! but if youve had a ticket thats been fine up to now!! why change it when its perfectly good and the nasc employers that youve worked for years are happy why change!! by the way phill see your firms getting about a bit on the national grid!!! no offence to you both but iam intiled to my opinion the same as you lads!!!
Last edited:
No you are perfectly entitled to your opinion mate - and I respect your opinion.
The big problem is that the WAHR's requires training for anyone who works at height. That is Law, not guidance. I understand that there are lads who have CISRS cards off the back of the old assessed route of entry - but that is another matter.
Either way, there must be a better alternative than the options we have available at the moment...
J
Jason-Gibbs
Guest
Dico mate, your not wrong, not at all.
Your right - completely.
But things change and theres nothing we can do about it...
ECITB tickets were being questioned by employers and sites when i started over 13 years ago.
Thats 13 years people have had to get CITB tickets sorted and 'retire' their ECITB ones.
How comes they didnt?
Why let it come to this?
Surely you guys would have known ages ago, about how things were gonna change?
Your right - completely.
But things change and theres nothing we can do about it...
ECITB tickets were being questioned by employers and sites when i started over 13 years ago.
Thats 13 years people have had to get CITB tickets sorted and 'retire' their ECITB ones.
How comes they didnt?
Why let it come to this?
Surely you guys would have known ages ago, about how things were gonna change?
rumours jason that was all if it was a database as certain partys have said why wasnt this put through the clients front doors from start to finish jason its been a shambles and one big cover up from start to finnish yeah ive got the readys to book a course but not as a trainee. anyway mate you gana put these scaffolds up that you had to make good and would love to no what tickets they had lol!!! respect to you all and up the bu!!**** we have to abide by lol!!!
geoffbecks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2010
- Messages
- 136
- Reaction score
- 0
I run a new scaffold course ( Either a Part 1, Part 2, or advanced) every two weeks and I have done for the last 7 years. On most days I have lads farting in class, talking about whatever takes their fancy or just pissing about while I am trying to stand up in front of them and explaine what the next job consists of or the scheme of works that will be used to erect it.
Then when the scaffold is erected wrong I get sour faces and the usual throwing on the floor of tubes or fitting when I tell them to put it up as I explained and as it shows on the drawing, something most lads might look at while in the class but then blows around the training centre floor whilst they erect what they think they looked at.!!
Some of these lads have been scaffolding for 10+ years, Then I get comments like
" we never do that on site" or "this is bolllloks" when I insist that an advanced guard rail is installed as is required by UK law.
So please dont knock all the training centres for not teaching to high standards when every two weeks there is the same fight going on and the same reluctence to learn from the candidates that seem to think that they dont need to be there or that they know it all at day one, and whos peers put that rubbish into their heads.
Our job is to give the candidates the right information and show them the correct way and it is for them to then make a consious disission on what they want to do with that information when they return to work. Most seem to want to follow the pack and if that entails slashing it up then it does not matter what we say or do we wont change them...but we did train them in the correct methods and explaine what minimum standards are required
You can lead a horse to water.......
Then when the scaffold is erected wrong I get sour faces and the usual throwing on the floor of tubes or fitting when I tell them to put it up as I explained and as it shows on the drawing, something most lads might look at while in the class but then blows around the training centre floor whilst they erect what they think they looked at.!!
Some of these lads have been scaffolding for 10+ years, Then I get comments like
" we never do that on site" or "this is bolllloks" when I insist that an advanced guard rail is installed as is required by UK law.
So please dont knock all the training centres for not teaching to high standards when every two weeks there is the same fight going on and the same reluctence to learn from the candidates that seem to think that they dont need to be there or that they know it all at day one, and whos peers put that rubbish into their heads.
Our job is to give the candidates the right information and show them the correct way and it is for them to then make a consious disission on what they want to do with that information when they return to work. Most seem to want to follow the pack and if that entails slashing it up then it does not matter what we say or do we wont change them...but we did train them in the correct methods and explaine what minimum standards are required
You can lead a horse to water.......
Last edited:
X
XxIANxX
Guest
Flinty
Moderator
Geoff good post, I can imagine it's tough I don't envy your job. If it makes you feel any better I thought my part 1 training was a good experience and I walked away a little wiser and use techniques I learnt at the centre now.
Only criticism I had was it was too easy to get the pass, a practical exam should be part of the course to prevent those who cannot scaffold still walking off with a pass!
I'm guessing he's talking about the working at height regulation, which doesn't say you must use an advanced guardrail... but says you must never be exposed to a fall, being in an unprotected zone as such. Sounds a little silly for our job I know :blink:
Only criticism I had was it was too easy to get the pass, a practical exam should be part of the course to prevent those who cannot scaffold still walking off with a pass!
I'm guessing he's talking about the working at height regulation, which doesn't say you must use an advanced guardrail... but says you must never be exposed to a fall, being in an unprotected zone as such. Sounds a little silly for our job I know :blink:
X
XxIANxX
Guest
.
.
But if he's telling scaffolders its the law to use an advanced guardrail this is wrong. The work at height regs don't mention advanced guardrails, if your paying for a scaffold course you should be getting the correct information
Avoidance of risks from work at height
6.—(1) In identifying the measures required by this regulation, every employer shall take account of a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations.
(2) Every employer shall ensure that work is not carried out at height where it is reasonably practicable to carry out the work safely otherwise than at height.
(3) Where work is carried out at height, every employer shall take suitable and sufficient measures to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, any person falling a distance liable to cause personal injury.
(4) The measures required by paragraph (3) shall include—
(a)his ensuring that the work is carried out—.
(i)from an existing place of work; or.
(ii)(in the case of obtaining access or egress) using an existing means,.
which complies with Schedule 1, where it is reasonably practicable to carry it out safely and under appropriate ergonomic conditions; and
(b)where it is not reasonably practicable for the work to be carried out in accordance with sub-paragraph (a), his providing sufficient work equipment for preventing, so far as is reasonably practicable, a fall occurring..
(5) Where the measures taken under paragraph (4) do not eliminate the risk of a fall occurring, every employer shall—
(a)so far as is reasonably practicable, provide sufficient work equipment to minimise—.
(i)the distance and consequences; or.
(ii)where it is not reasonably practicable to minimise the distance, the consequences,.
of a fall; and
(b)without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (3), provide such additional training and instruction or take other additional suitable and sufficient measures to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, any person falling a distance liable to cause personal injury.