yes i agree it should be longer it seems took quick from course to course to get your tickets if your young i know 1 x advanced cisrs scaffolder that cant base a job out and be left alone and i know 2 x basic scaffolders that are awfull and cant work alone unless the job has been based out for them then they jump up and the ones who have based out end up labouring i havent got any respect what so ever for the scaffolding indusry i lost all interest when these shareholders made the ecitb scaffolder start from scratch again 3 lads that post on here every night are but a few. i reckon if you got every ticketed scaffolder in there 20s and set them a task with there valid ticket some wouldnt be able to complete 40% of the tasks given to them the only young persons that i would say that has been trained properly are the ones shown and that have come through the ranks is by the farthers that have trainned them through a very young age but saying that ive seen some cr!p old ones too i dont care who has what ticket but at the end of the day if you have the tickets you should be able to errect a scaffold
20 year old advanced scaffolder!
- Thread starter joebag
- Start date
yes i agree it should be longer it seems took quick from course to course to get your tickets if your young i know 1 x advanced cisrs scaffolder that cant base a job out and be left alone and i know 2 x basic scaffolders that are awfull and cant work alone unless the job has been based out for them then they jump up and the ones who have based out end up labouring i havent got any respect what so ever for the scaffolding indusry i lost all interest when these shareholders made the ecitb scaffolder start from scratch again 3 lads that post on here every night are but a few. i reckon if you got every ticketed scaffolder in there 20s and set them a task with there valid ticket some wouldnt be able to complete 40% of the tasks given to them the only young persons that i would say that has been trained properly are the ones shown and that have come through the ranks is by the farthers that have trainned them through a very young age but saying that ive seen some cr!p old ones too i dont care who has what ticket but at the end of the day if you have the tickets you should be able to errect a scaffold
I just don't agree boy's. 5 Years would still be plenty time for a young gun to hold an advanced course but it could easy be done a lot quicker than that. How long does it take to learn how to build a hanger or cantilever?
joebag
Well-known member
more a case of the responsibility of the job for me though aom,also how soon will these big outfits click on to the fact these young advanced wont stand their ground on issues like money or conditions
,that kind of life experience only comes with age and experience,not just about the hangers its about for me respecting the trade your in,im not an advanced scaffolder,
i lack experience in hangers and tube shoring,managing men has not been a problem for me but can you see a lad of twenty holding his hand up and saying his flaws,
no hes just going to let the new blokes in his gang be convinced he knows what hes doing because his card says so,he could well have sat on his arse in between his card dates as we all know people who have given a bottle for a portfolio,
that wasnt as bigger problem in a way when it was forty year old blokes who just couldnt be arsed but had the skills,
but now its the worst of both worlds with lads being shuffled through with generic portfolios without experience
its a recipe for disaster and bottom line will drop money as the skill level will decrease !
,that kind of life experience only comes with age and experience,not just about the hangers its about for me respecting the trade your in,im not an advanced scaffolder,
i lack experience in hangers and tube shoring,managing men has not been a problem for me but can you see a lad of twenty holding his hand up and saying his flaws,
no hes just going to let the new blokes in his gang be convinced he knows what hes doing because his card says so,he could well have sat on his arse in between his card dates as we all know people who have given a bottle for a portfolio,
that wasnt as bigger problem in a way when it was forty year old blokes who just couldnt be arsed but had the skills,
but now its the worst of both worlds with lads being shuffled through with generic portfolios without experience
its a recipe for disaster and bottom line will drop money as the skill level will decrease !
Maybe Joe and you may have a point regarding wage and conditions but I first touched down on a rig the first thing I said to my new gaffer was I have never been off shore before so keep an eye on me and keep me right, we hit it off and are still mates today.
The way I see it the game and skill set has changed and we must change with it, most problems are now solved at the estimating stage as the jobs need more planning to see if we can build it to follow the rules and if we can't we get in a designer. All an advance scaff really needs to do now is be able to read a drawing, experience is maybe not what it once was.
The way I see it the game and skill set has changed and we must change with it, most problems are now solved at the estimating stage as the jobs need more planning to see if we can build it to follow the rules and if we can't we get in a designer. All an advance scaff really needs to do now is be able to read a drawing, experience is maybe not what it once was.
joebag
Well-known member
so by doing it at the estimating stage,taking initiative and skill out of the equation and letting everyone else cream the money off we just become robots that say yes and if we dont know some bloke with a safety hat who doesnt know his tube from his poles will put the hammer down on it
,nah mate i will fight for the right of blokes to use skill and keep that experience learned,its what built the world so far and im sick of bullsh1t safety measures getting in the way
they cant show how many blokes die or get injured as a result of not doing these safety measures every year because more people i bet die of wasp stings,people die crossing the roads and scaremongering is destroying scaffolding yet making a few rich
,nah mate i will fight for the right of blokes to use skill and keep that experience learned,its what built the world so far and im sick of bullsh1t safety measures getting in the way
they cant show how many blokes die or get injured as a result of not doing these safety measures every year because more people i bet die of wasp stings,people die crossing the roads and scaremongering is destroying scaffolding yet making a few rich
marra watson
Moderator
i disagrre slightly there marra ,i can lean how to build a how to ride a horse form you tube but get me on 1 and no dout ad be off the c@nting thing in a mattert of seconds lol i dont think its a case of How long does it take to learn how to build a hanger or cantilever? but rather can you build a hanfer or cantilever without being tld what to do.
dis a gree here an all marra if av fuked up am first to say aw well you can't be perfect all the time lol nar if av fuked up,
---------- Post added at 09:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------
to answer the question at 20 no chance think of it this way would you let some 1 of 20 with 5 years exp b your brain sergoen? or some 1 40 wth26 years exp
joebag
Well-known member
no doubt you would mate,no doubt at all but its the ones that dont and slip through the net,a net thats getting more holes in it that will ultimately **** us all,
imagine a few big jobs going down put up by young advanced scaffolders,how soon do you think they will scrap the card system as it is now,,,,,,not like they havent scrapped a card system before is it !
imagine a few big jobs going down put up by young advanced scaffolders,how soon do you think they will scrap the card system as it is now,,,,,,not like they havent scrapped a card system before is it !
Just the way I see the job going Joe, all drawings and pretty pictures now. Of course skill is still important, just less so when the jobs were built first then pictures taken then the drawing and calcs were done.
joebag
Well-known member
thats it then,im becoming a member of nasc 
i disagrre slightly there marra ,i can lean how to build a how to ride a horse form you tube but get me on 1 and no dout ad be off the c@nting thing in a mattert of seconds lol i dont think its a case of How long does it take to learn how to build a hanger or cantilever? but rather can you build a hanfer or cantilever without being tld what to do.
Marra, nearly everything I know is because someone told me, of course you need to be taught how to do these structures correctly no one or very few would do it right without instruction. As for the horse thing, you are on your own with that one.
---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------
Have you got 3 years of trading accounts?:laugh:
Marra, nearly everything I know is because someone told me, of course you need to be taught how to do these structures correctly no one or very few would do it right without instruction. As for the horse thing, you are on your own with that one.
---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------
thats it then,im becoming a member of nasc
Have you got 3 years of trading accounts?:laugh:
joebag
Well-known member
ive got generic internet trading accounts and a leased mercedes paid for with iou's that are as good as money,i also have a complete inability to feel sorry for my fellow scaffs and eat kittens wrapped in puppy fur for breakfast,,,am i in ?
marra watson
Moderator
i know what your saying marra you need to be taught how to do it propperly but once you have been tought you shouldnt be going any were near your final assesment unless you can do it with out been told on the job coz as you know theres the people cna do it with out been told and people who can't and an advances scaff can not and should not be a yes man they should be the teacher if that makes sence
Those that can, do and those that can't teach, is that what you mean?
There is no big dark secret to these types of jobs, just turn the double and away you go I always thought it is not what we do but where we do it that makes it tough.
Havespannerwilltravel
Moderator
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Exactly aom. There is much talk on here about building hanging scaffolds. Apart from not being stood on the deck the same procedures should be applied.It is after all just connecting tubes with fittings to form a frame and placing boards to form a working platform.As you say no dark secrets that have to be learnt in a secret scaffolding school under the leadership of a sensei!!
Maybe the training needs to be altered. As a young un of 16 many moons ago I did the full city & guilds apprentiship in roof tiling & slating. One of the major points of this was on site observation & testing before any units could be passed off. Meaning by the time I was 19 I was more then competent to do that job.
I have seen nothing like this whilst progressing through my cisrs cards. I have no problem with anybody regardless of age holding the advanced ticket as long as they have proved they are competent.
I have seen nothing like this whilst progressing through my cisrs cards. I have no problem with anybody regardless of age holding the advanced ticket as long as they have proved they are competent.
i agree aom but!!!! my argument was which i didnt state properly was when youve got a hanger off a hanger or a canterliver off a hanger ect and joe bloggs the weilder or lagger wants a modification. to get hes boiler door or valve through the scaffold that has been built around it unless youve got the exsperience and knowledge to know whats holding what up and what can be removed this is where the exsperience comes in not saying all young lads are numptys but no good haveing the knowledge to build these jobs its all different on a live circuit and not 15 foot off the floor
I would agree Dico, especially on a shut down or hook up, these things just grow and grow and how the tag man knows where they start and where they end is beyond me. To be honest, most jobs I have seen out on the rigs on the hook ups looked like the weans had built them anyway. I get your point but if the young gun has been in that environment for a few years he will be more than capable. I wouldn't put him in charge unless he could gain others respect but it would be more for his own protection than his lack of ability. I would also expect a half descent gaffer to be able to point out any weaknesses in neighbouring structures before setting any squad to work.
E
essex
Guest
Age and experience don't always mean good
I.e. a scaffolder I no is 52 been scaffolding over 30 years and struggles with staircases, shores and stuff like that, so called advanced work and then there's a 26 year old who has done every scaffold you can think of even a slung and is on top form.
Pele was 16 when he played for brazil and won the world cup, messi is 25 now and has been 1 of the top players for over 4 years, don't mean a player of say 35 is better then a player of 21.
In my experience I think that every scaffolder should try, street/site/powerstation/rail work etc to get the feel of different work.
A young scaffolder of 25 who has work on all the above would be a better scaffolder then a experience 50 year old who has done a bit of site work and mainly street bashing.
Am I right or wrong? Age and experience does have a big part but not always.
I.e. a scaffolder I no is 52 been scaffolding over 30 years and struggles with staircases, shores and stuff like that, so called advanced work and then there's a 26 year old who has done every scaffold you can think of even a slung and is on top form.
Pele was 16 when he played for brazil and won the world cup, messi is 25 now and has been 1 of the top players for over 4 years, don't mean a player of say 35 is better then a player of 21.
In my experience I think that every scaffolder should try, street/site/powerstation/rail work etc to get the feel of different work.
A young scaffolder of 25 who has work on all the above would be a better scaffolder then a experience 50 year old who has done a bit of site work and mainly street bashing.
Am I right or wrong? Age and experience does have a big part but not always.
think your find industrial work off shore work more or less covers everything a 52 year olde guy thats been in the game for 30 years and struggles with a staircase well he must be a numpty the only thing i would say that most dont do is shore but when do you use one anyway on a day to day basis. ive never done one in twenty years but theres good in both sectors street and industrial if i worked with a street scaffolder he would probably p!ss all over me with speed as on the street you have to move to earn your money sod all that rushing around but can see where your comeing from essex theres some good youngsters and theres some ive got the tickets and iam the boll!ocks no it all!!! the same as some olde school that are either not interested or just labourer were they cant be bothered or there bodys foo!ked i personally feel sorry for the young lads that are comeing in to the game the days were you were shown a job and got on with it have gone its all about regs and which way the designer wants it built
S
stleger
Guest
interesting debate , but i think the entire process of how someone becomes a scaff should be made more difficult , its too easy to become a scaffolder , if u have 2 grand to spare, youre in , they should make someone realise if they choose to be a scaff they have to put 2 or 3 years in to learn and gain experience ,, instead what u have is some 16st bear deciding , im solid , ill be a scaff, spend 2 grand and my m8 will get me a job. but maybe the industry is supposed to be like that to entice people to buy a career , who knows ?