That's because a large percentage of the ******* aren't qualified. Keep it quiet though, otherwise their clients might start asking questions........unless they keep their costs below those of qualified/competent design engineers of course!!
Beams up right way?
- Thread starter hopper68
- Start date
That's because a large percentage of the ******* aren't qualified. Keep it quiet though, otherwise their clients might start asking questions........unless they keep their costs below those of qualified/competent design engineers of course!!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=garercuDtKU&feature=fvwrel]Braveheart Soundtrack *Freedom* - YouTube[/ame]
S
scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
Get your hair cut ya scruffy c***!
A drunken Aussie playing an ancient porridge wog.......there's poetic justice for you!
S
scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
And that wa just thi chest I'd dread to see wat thi wig looks like nar wi thi dreadlocks and all because tha planning Glastonbury next summer.
Have you ever met an east coaster who could annunciate? Naw, me neither.:embarrest:
---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ----------
FFS, naw you an aw.:laugh:
---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ----------
FFS, naw you an aw.:laugh:
Does anyone else remember the days when you would build the job and the engineer would do his drawings copying what you built?
Fred a 750mm Layher beam apparently has 30% less loading when upside down (So some spotty kid told me)
Fred a 750mm Layher beam apparently has 30% less loading when upside down (So some spotty kid told me)
Alan Reade
Well-known member
Beam End Bracing
Almost all beam systems have a different configuration for different reasons.
The common belief was that the end brace should always be in tension.
The Original “Fish Belly Truss” braces ALL up.
The SGB Unit Beam End braces up.
The old Plettac system the end brace went down.
The Ably System the braces all went the same way which meant one end went up and the other end down.
The BB&EA roof the brace went down
Cape Super light, down
Initial Omni, down
Haki 450 both up and down dependent upon the beam length
Haki 750 is down however they have different load for both cases but this relates to the keyhole section on their bottom chord
All that said the common belief is that the end brace should always go up. However the end brace going up did not always mean that the last brace would be in tension. This was determined by several other varying factors.
The most notable factor is where the support falls along the beam; this will determine if the brace is in tension or compression, the purpose of the beam is to carry a load from an undesirable location to a more desirable one i.e the support. Your aim is to then transfer the load from the beam into the support at this point the brace beyond the support may in fact be doing next to nothing if the beam end is not supported.
This condition changes dramatically when a beam is connected across two support standards (at one end of a span)as the beam end is likely to be in an uplift situation thus increasing the load in the first support and creating a negative force in the second. This again may change the load direction in the beam braces.
With the above knowledge in hand if your Engineer (Good, Bad or Indifferent) tells you to put them one way up or the other, (bear in mind he may have his reasons for this) but unless you have serious concerns that he may be wrong it’s generally best that you take his recommendations.
Stickers on a beam? Unless they say “TOP” or “Bottom” I would not be inclined to take this as an accurate indication that the beam is the right way up.
We question the knowledge of our Engineers in who’s hands our lives may depend yet we put our faith in the guy putting the stickers on a beam for 50p an hour?
Make no mistake I am a big believer in the fact that there are good and bad Engineers out there along with good and bad …………………… (insert any trade to suit) that does not make them ALL Good or ALL Bad.
It is unfortunate yet possible to go through a career in the scaffolding industry either in a qualified or unqualified role without actually producing a tangible product other than a critique of another man’s work. The information the critics would use to beat others, was it created or derived by them? I think not. Look to your own short comings and failings before diverting attention to others.
I worked with my old fella for a few years and his most valuable lesson was “If you have nothing good to say shut the F**k up!”
But in the words of Theodore Roosevelt
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
There is to my knowledge NO collage, NASC, CITB, CSCS course to teach and or train “SCAFFOLDING ENGINEERS”. If there were we would be asking who taught the teacher. There is no recognised “Scaffolding Engineer Qualification” therefore who amongst us is qualified to asses them? Sure you can do so using your experience and knowledge in the industry but are you qualified to do so?
There are many good and reputable Engineers out there Alwyn is amongst them and we lord his and the efforts of others who spread their knowledge but will they be issuing an industry recognised qualification?
Equally there are people who have taken the opportunity to become Scaffolding Engineers because there is a shortage and they smell blood in the water. It is you who can regulate them by not using them. If you know they are bad why use them? if it was a poor plumber you would find one that was better.
It is easy to forget that there is a shortage of Engineers in the Industry, it is also easy to believe that it is the Engineers who are desiring more and more designs be done, that is not the case Engineers merely deal with the consequences of the European Codes Imposed upon them (let’s be clear, I voted against joining Europe).
We all like to hark back to the old days when we could work to BS5973, compiled by your “unqualified” Engineers and Designers some even refer to the “Little Green and Little Yellow Books” again written and compiled by the same “Unqualified” Engineers and Designers. Without this input where would the industry be?
Almost all beam systems have a different configuration for different reasons.
The common belief was that the end brace should always be in tension.
The Original “Fish Belly Truss” braces ALL up.
The SGB Unit Beam End braces up.
The old Plettac system the end brace went down.
The Ably System the braces all went the same way which meant one end went up and the other end down.
The BB&EA roof the brace went down
Cape Super light, down
Initial Omni, down
Haki 450 both up and down dependent upon the beam length
Haki 750 is down however they have different load for both cases but this relates to the keyhole section on their bottom chord
All that said the common belief is that the end brace should always go up. However the end brace going up did not always mean that the last brace would be in tension. This was determined by several other varying factors.
The most notable factor is where the support falls along the beam; this will determine if the brace is in tension or compression, the purpose of the beam is to carry a load from an undesirable location to a more desirable one i.e the support. Your aim is to then transfer the load from the beam into the support at this point the brace beyond the support may in fact be doing next to nothing if the beam end is not supported.
This condition changes dramatically when a beam is connected across two support standards (at one end of a span)as the beam end is likely to be in an uplift situation thus increasing the load in the first support and creating a negative force in the second. This again may change the load direction in the beam braces.
With the above knowledge in hand if your Engineer (Good, Bad or Indifferent) tells you to put them one way up or the other, (bear in mind he may have his reasons for this) but unless you have serious concerns that he may be wrong it’s generally best that you take his recommendations.
Stickers on a beam? Unless they say “TOP” or “Bottom” I would not be inclined to take this as an accurate indication that the beam is the right way up.
We question the knowledge of our Engineers in who’s hands our lives may depend yet we put our faith in the guy putting the stickers on a beam for 50p an hour?
Make no mistake I am a big believer in the fact that there are good and bad Engineers out there along with good and bad …………………… (insert any trade to suit) that does not make them ALL Good or ALL Bad.
It is unfortunate yet possible to go through a career in the scaffolding industry either in a qualified or unqualified role without actually producing a tangible product other than a critique of another man’s work. The information the critics would use to beat others, was it created or derived by them? I think not. Look to your own short comings and failings before diverting attention to others.
I worked with my old fella for a few years and his most valuable lesson was “If you have nothing good to say shut the F**k up!”
But in the words of Theodore Roosevelt
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
There is to my knowledge NO collage, NASC, CITB, CSCS course to teach and or train “SCAFFOLDING ENGINEERS”. If there were we would be asking who taught the teacher. There is no recognised “Scaffolding Engineer Qualification” therefore who amongst us is qualified to asses them? Sure you can do so using your experience and knowledge in the industry but are you qualified to do so?
There are many good and reputable Engineers out there Alwyn is amongst them and we lord his and the efforts of others who spread their knowledge but will they be issuing an industry recognised qualification?
Equally there are people who have taken the opportunity to become Scaffolding Engineers because there is a shortage and they smell blood in the water. It is you who can regulate them by not using them. If you know they are bad why use them? if it was a poor plumber you would find one that was better.
It is easy to forget that there is a shortage of Engineers in the Industry, it is also easy to believe that it is the Engineers who are desiring more and more designs be done, that is not the case Engineers merely deal with the consequences of the European Codes Imposed upon them (let’s be clear, I voted against joining Europe).
We all like to hark back to the old days when we could work to BS5973, compiled by your “unqualified” Engineers and Designers some even refer to the “Little Green and Little Yellow Books” again written and compiled by the same “Unqualified” Engineers and Designers. Without this input where would the industry be?
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steveo south east
Guest
Alan the industry would be back in the scaffolders hand. The youth would gain experience from chargehands and the HSE would be scared to talk to us as scaffs have always been a little off
On a number of levels. What an interesting thread!
Regarding the beams. Certain beams (Layher 750 for example) have different properties depending which way up they are but in general it makes little difference. I'd be more worried about how the beams are laced and braced.
But then I didn't design it or know how those beams are working or loaded.
Regarding the beams. Certain beams (Layher 750 for example) have different properties depending which way up they are but in general it makes little difference. I'd be more worried about how the beams are laced and braced.
But then I didn't design it or know how those beams are working or loaded.