S
scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
Ok Debs ya sissy tek it easy. Speak soon mi old.
Beams up right way?
- Thread starter hopper68
- Start date
Ok Debs ya sissy tek it easy. Speak soon mi old.
cassie
Well-known member
if you looked up " surelock " you would see its " very similar to Layher..lol.. have a look at stuff before posting mate.. its all down to competancy, and experience... it bores me when people state what you just have regarding manufacturers recommendations... we have a skill, and we use it, otherwise we will end up like PASMA erectors etc...lol..
Alan Reade
Well-known member
Morning SSS
sorry you are offended by my post but I guess you are reading between the lines and have perhaps spotted a point or two that you know to be true.
It is not the Engineers who mug you off fella it is you. You crave knowledge but berate and decline it when it is offered. It is “want” to improve not the “need” that allows you to progress.
There are others on here who may tell you that I only too willing to help with an answer to a problem be it based on knowledge or experience (which in truth I believe to be the same thing) I am not here to pay the childish games into which many choose to seem to fall.
Yes I have been and still proud to be a Scaffolding Designer/Engineer with a few years in. I have also done just about every other productive job in this industry from the bottom up. My name is on the top of the page should anyone wish to test my credentials. I do not work under a nom de plume.
As previously stated its easy to be the critic not so easy to the artist.
Regards
Alan
---------- Post added at 03:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 AM ----------
Most if not all Engineers have a third party checking facility of some kind available to them (at a cost which would be passed on to you). I am not negative to the improvements to which you refer. I would ask where you would expect to find them?
At this time there are no facilities to train, teach or qualify the industry’s designers. The years of SGB and other major players training Designers/Engineers are long gone. I can tell you from experience that a structural engineering course is the minimum I would expect, from experience I can tell you it teaches you nothing about scaffolding or scaffold design and most certainly does not guarantee the calculations will be done correctly. It is the individual who inputs the information that ensures accuracy or otherwise and the cross check that should guarantee it.
I see many scaffs on here on a regular basis debating the need for them to be carded or not, for me it is not a debate nor is it a debate in the same regards to Engineers, the answer is yes we should all be qualified in our chosen profession the question is where can we get those qualifications that best suit the trade in which we will be applying them.
An association to a non-related trade may not be adequate.
---------- Post added at 03:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 AM ----------
In a typical span
If you apply a downward load to a beam be it hanging or punched up the top will be in compression (squashing)and the bottom in tension (stretching).
In a Typical cantilever
on the cantilevered section the same loads will give the opposite condition the top will stretch and the bottom squash.
The most important thing to remember is where the tube chord ties go.
Generally the chord tie frequency for a compression chord is half that of the tension chord.
So if using a unit beam assume your top chord is in compression your ties may be at 1.2m c/c and on the bottom tension chord they would be at 2.4m c/c
Also remember to plan brace the compression chord.
regards
Alan
---------- Post added at 03:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 AM ----------
You only need one driving license for any Car?:weird:
---------- Post added at 03:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 AM ----------
Not hiding fella, sleeping I am in different time zone to you.
so that said
Good Morning
The mixing of systems is not to be advised.
I believe most if not all manufacturers will tell you the same.
There may well be incompatibilities with are not apparent to the naked eye.
There is also the consideration of the inevitable to consider the “Undesirable Event” this is the point when all and sundry see their way out the manufacturers, insurers and all associated parties will rightly be distancing themselves from who’s kit did what and thus liability.
The liability will then fall firmly on the shoulders of “The Designer”.
For those unfamiliar with the meaning of the term “Designer” in this industry it means the guy who said what to build and with what to build it. That may be many of you self employed guys out there who by the way classify as “Unqualified Designers”
Regards Alan
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outward bound
Well-known member
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im no designer and dont profess to be but - when you fix the puncheon to the cords then it does make a difference with regards to tension and compression. but when the puncheon is fixed to both the top and bottom cord then the puncheon is always fixed near the node point on a beam, so this is acceptable. the problem lies when you only fix the puncheon on one fitting and it is fixed between the V and not near the node point. this is the guidance for the unit beams. as always beams are manufactured and should be checked with their user guidance.
have fun !!
have fun !!
Regardless of how you want to dress it up, bored or not, skilled & experienced in installing, means nothing..........your actions of mixing Layher with any other modular product is wrong, simple.
S
scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
I thought you had deed mick, you've been very quiet as of late, how's things mi old?
---------- Post added at 06:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 AM ----------
Just hang on scaffom says its fine according to what another user said. they should know they are a manufacturer and always follow manufacturers guidance.
Scafom's MD & Sales Manager would do well to return to the banking industry! I have seen the LinkedIn thread in where they destroyed their own professional reputations. All the comments are still on the mixing thread within the Scaffolding Designers Group. I believe Scafom's MD tried to bully a poster into removing his comments with legal action! This didn't work either and proved to be posturing & just empty threats as once again their MD was shown his own arse by the original poster. John Minton visited a design engineer last week stating that he had dealt with that poster's libellous comments in the correct & appropriate manner! He doesn't realise that the poster had shared Scafom's ridiculous solicitor's letters with plenty of people in the industry. (Including the design engineer he was visiting! LOL) Apparently Scafom told that Design engineer that they were no longer "promoting" the mixing of their products!!??
The NASC also requested Scafom to answer & explain their actions of selectively lifting certain sentences from one of the SG documents! I find it amazing that people in the industry still give those people responsible for those poor posts, any time at all. Read the LinkedIn thread and see how embarrassing & full of inaccuracies Scafom's MD, Technical Officer & Salesman posts are!!
e
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Alan Reade
Well-known member
I would onl advise picking up top and bottom chords.
If you only pick up the top you may have an issue with bending on the tube chord. Plus it's a pig to stop your standard from rotating around the tube.
S
scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
Scafom's MD & Sales Manager would do well to return to the banking industry! I have seen the LinkedIn thread in where they destroyed their own professional reputations. All the comments are still on the mixing thread within the Scaffolding Designers Group. I believe Scafom's MD tried to bully a poster into removing his comments with legal action! This didn't work either and proved to be posturing & just empty threats as once again their MD was shown his own arse by the original poster. John Minton visited a design engineer last week stating that he had dealt with that poster's libellous comments in the correct & appropriate manner! He doesn't realise that the poster had shared Scafom's ridiculous solicitor's letters with plenty of people in the industry. (Including the design engineer he was visiting! LOL) Apparently Scafom told that Design engineer that they were no longer "promoting" the mixing of their products!!??
The NASC also requested Scafom to answer & explain their actions of selectively lifting certain sentences from one of the SG documents! I find it amazing that people in the industry still give those people responsible for those poor posts, any time at all. Read the LinkedIn thread and see how embarrassing & full of inaccuracies Scafom's MD, Technical Officer & Salesman posts are!!
Wow I posted on that thread... I now know who you are on about... Come on scaffom sue my Arse if you've got the balls!
I doubt you'll get a take on that Steve, unless they have a "nailed on" defamatory/libel case. It is very expensive to have a solicitor send letters, I doubt Scafom's owners want to waste any more.........& I doubt Mr Minton will pay for it himself & I think he has learnt his lesson regarding posting on internet forums........you can make yourself look a complete & utter cock!!
S
scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
Well if everybody slags them off on the Internet this could be the next big thing. Where ever there is a libellous writ, lets all make some money off it.lol.
marra watson
Moderator
cheers for that marra but do you need to turn the beam over when i in canterlever as the manufacture will state that a bidging beam compression will bt the top cord and how to ditermin the top cord i would presume so the top/top cord should always be in compression in bridging beams but with a canterlieverd beam its its top/bottom cord in compression if this make any sence
---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 PM ----------
can you guarantee you have never mixed layher with any other ringlock scaffold weather it be a layher job on 1 or 2 scaffform started cups the odd layher ledger in a scafform job the inevtable is that its going to get mixed after years of use spech when labes etc come off and its well used i can tell the difrence between layher and scaffform scafform pin spit metal at ya etes other than that i crnt naked eyely see any diffrence :laugh:
cassie
Well-known member
From what I've read on here... probably not..lol
Alan Reade
Well-known member
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philliosmaximus
Moderator
Them Jam Sandwich eaters Alan , dont confuse them other wise they will be trying to work out which way up to put a ladder beam in :laugh::laugh:
Alan Reade
Well-known member
Good Boy Phil, funny:bigsmile:
joebag
Well-known member
If your hanging from the middle of a beam isn't the compression/tension still the same as puncheon up off one ,had to put this in as I made the comment of the forces were the same ,and sss seems a right kuntz so I've covered my arsenal
S
scaffoldingsafetyservices
Guest
Joebag I can assure I ain't what you say I am but everybody has an opionion. At the end of the day you fired first and I returned fire. Move on.
kent_scaff
Member
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- Jul 10, 2012
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How does it matter what way up you put a haki beam?
The only difference will be what way the end support face up or down.
How many times over the years have you done a simple bit of beam work ie 2 x 6m or 8m haki beams bridged from 2 independants over something yet the beams are different!
some have more straight upright supports than others so cant allways get your tie cords transoms where you need them anyhow.
Also some you can fit doubles beetween the small V's a lot of them you can't.
Steel Unit beams go either way whats the difference?
Also remember the days of using steel unit beams to do temp roofs, we all try putting the beams all the same so the angles meet each other when joining but then sometimes you need to flip them so the fish tails line up and so the angled supports dont follow suit.
The only difference will be what way the end support face up or down.
How many times over the years have you done a simple bit of beam work ie 2 x 6m or 8m haki beams bridged from 2 independants over something yet the beams are different!
some have more straight upright supports than others so cant allways get your tie cords transoms where you need them anyhow.
Also some you can fit doubles beetween the small V's a lot of them you can't.
Steel Unit beams go either way whats the difference?
Also remember the days of using steel unit beams to do temp roofs, we all try putting the beams all the same so the angles meet each other when joining but then sometimes you need to flip them so the fish tails line up and so the angled supports dont follow suit.