Sccr

paddy carr said:
With all due respect Ian, on my letter i have deleted the recipients name. However, i thought our aim was to show all correspondence, as in our forerunner, Committee for Consultation Rights group, under Correspondence.

I apologise if i am wrong, but what happens in the Confederation,IMHO, is if its news, let the guys share it. In other words the Members and potential members need to know that we are actually doing something. At the end of the day the members are our Employers, they voted us in.

Best Regards
Paddy
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I undestand where your coming from paddy and I think the message should be put across , but from a legal point of view we are being left open. as per the data protection act. I realise that we want to put the mession across , but we need to e proffesional in how we go about it or no one will take ue serious.
 
All correspondence shown on this web site is because they are written by members of this site on behalf of other members of this site.

Data Protection is on the persons data.

All the letters & e-mails that have been posted relate to this site & the threads on this site. All persons written to have been informed about this site & the fact that the information held in these e-mails are to be copied on this site.

With the S.C.C.R. it has been written into our constitution that correspondence involving the membership will be posted on scaffoldersforum as well as the S.C.C.R web site . After all we have to publish our activities every year so this is no different.

Also there are a lot more letters & e-mails that don't go on this site because of possible legal action.

The reason for this is it will take time to put into action a lot of what we are doing & yes a lot of it will need legal action to pursue. If anyone wants to sponsor a legal team for this then let me know A.S.A.P. Until then we will have to move with care & build up the membership.

Sorry for the delay with the membership but we have been trying to iron out any potential problems before I can process the applications we need to register with the Data Protection which will be done next week. Without Admins input I have had to postpone the membership forms until next week I am sorry for this.

Thank you to the current committee for all the work you have done so far & this is the start of a lot of long nights!!

Ragscaff

Chairman S.C.C.R
Scaffy Vice Chairman
Paddy Health & Safety Development Officer
Steve Gregory Training Development Officer
Kevin34 + 3

As yet no contact for the remaining elected committee members, if this is still the same by the end of next week I will propose to vote new committee members to fill their spaces next Friday.
 
Thamks for the fasr reply ragscaff, I was only worried about the legallities of what was being put on the site. I would be gutted if we were to fall at the 1st hurdle. with regards to getting NVQ on board where are we at . also we will be needing legal representation do we have anything planned
 
Early stages.

Need membership first, many voices & all that.

We have contact with CITB which we are to pursue.

NASC are not talking to us anymore (surprise)

ECITB have never replyed

CISRS well they are the NASC ( I can say this becasue the man in charge Mr Mosley's e-mail address is NASC)

Tried a couple of MP's nothing yet.

I think even Dico might have contacted Watchdog. If you did Dico e-mail me anything that was sent & when. ragscaff@sky.com

We are preparing a press release & the web site should be on line this week or next in some form or other.

I have even told Scaffy he is Chairman when I get shot so I think we have started something but I do welcome any help or push we can get.

We are preparing reports on the ECITB issue & the fact that the whole training thing is a bit confused. As well as a HSE report for the next meeting.

Action in regards the ECITB issue is on going & priority. If you know of any graduate in law who wants a case study then this would be the baby!!

Ragscaff
 
cant fault you ragscaff..you and the sccr doing great job..did email watch dog twice
on there web site.in july and left brife details.didnt receive reply but they have forum details.and it should be on record.once you ave the sccr.address up and running il send
you leter i wrote to nasc and reply i received also il send you leter i received from damian collins mp m8.
 
dico said:
cant fault you ragscaff..you and the sccr doing great job..did email watch dog twice
on there web site.in july and left brife details.didnt receive reply but they have forum details.and it should be on record.once you ave the sccr.address up and running il send
you leter i wrote to nasc and reply i received also il send you leter i received from damian collins mp m8.
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sccr@sky.com is up & running e-mail it when you can
 
SCCR Membership Price list


Individual Membership £10 per year

Will include membership card. We are working on discounts for insurance companies & tool suppliers.

Sole Trader Membership £40 per year

Will include membership certificate. We are working on discounts for insurance companies & tool suppliers.

Ltd Company Membership £90 per year

Will include membership certificate. We are working on discounts for insurance companies & tool suppliers.

The associate side of the SCCR will be done by application. Deals may be made on advertising or discounts offered. If you are a supplier then contact us at sccr@sky.com


In preparation for the next question what do you get for your money.

To be part of an organisation that will represent you in regards the HSE, CITB, CISRS, NASC etc. We aim to work along side these other organisations & have already set up meetings with the HSE. I am also about to confirm a meeting with the CISRS. All the committee are working for free behind the scenes on issues such as ECITB, Training in general, Health & Safety matters, guidance & legislation matters.



Also we are negotiating discounts from insurance companies & suppliers for all members.​
 
wow i wonder if you could go into a bit more detail lol
that was a most comprehensive response well done
regards
 
I am from tomorrow away in France for six or seven days working.

If you apply it may take longer to deal with your request.

Regards Ragscaff :eek:
 
One of the main topics we are chasing is training please find a report made after the last HSE meeting. As all the feed back so far has been from forum members & personal experiance we will be happy for comments on the report. As yet it has has none!!!



Report on Training re meeting 26/5/10.

Attending myself & two representatives of the HSE 1 works on the regs & guidelines for scaffolding & the other a principle inspector.

This section was a general discussion on how I felt & how I think the members feel about training in the industry.

Taken from the questionnaire.

80% think that training is not sufficient & that 95% think the apprenticeship should be brought in as a standard starting point.

CISRS is not showing experience, it is too easy to obtain a ticket. Yet on the other hand if you have been in the Industry a number of years & have not got your ticket it takes too long & costs too much if you are not backed by your company.

I asked the question what is a competent person as the guidelines & regs state a competent person can erect scaffold. The HSE interpretation is trained & ticketed!! I then asked why does it not state this?

The answer was there are different ways of achieving trained & ticketed & they do not want to be biased against these options. I then asked why then do the NASC only acknowledge the CISRS scheme. I know of at least two firms with ECITB ticket holders who have been refused membership!

If we are to be taken seriously in this Industry we should have our training provider & our Industry body singing from the same hymn sheet.

CISRS needs to be a longer scheme for all areas & needs to include system scaffold. Every Scaffolder will come across cup lock & haki in their day to day duties so these two should be included. You should have to have a minimum of one years experience prior to part 1 with evidence that you have experience in the criteria covered on that course. Under in house training guided by the CISRS.

Part 2 should be allowed after another year, again covering the criteria covered by the course under in house training.

In house training is simple, working with a ticketed Scaffolder & learning the trade. After all scaffolding is mainly about experience. I do feel that you should not be allowed to take these courses unless you are put through by a company. You should be able to get yourself entered into a scheme by expanding the trainee ticket with CSCS & basic scaffolding knowledge which would able you to work on sites with a qualified Scaffolder.

Advanced should not be obtained for at least five years. (Assed route was 10!!)

I asked about assed route & am told it will not be returning. The reason being is that it was first brought in for a two year period & was kept open for ten. They feel that was time enough for everyone to have taken it who was going to. I made the comment that its only over the last year & a half to two years that contractors have insisted on it & that the general interpretation of a competent Scaffolder was if you had been doing it for a number of years that you were qualified. In fact I have seen some site agents who have taken their two day inspection course adapt scaffold because they feel they are qualified.

If it was made clear that you had to have a ticket then I feel that more people would have done the course.

I also mentioned that the regs & guidelines now are covered by several different documents. Why is their not an idiots guide to the standard technical information. i.e. standard spacing, lift heights, hand rail heights etc etc. Then we would be able to pass this information on in our training. If this was produced so that everyone could obtain it instead of documents being produced by the NASC that cost a fortune to obtain. This information is for us. We don’t want the design tech stuff because this has now been taken out of our hands & you have to have a drawing for any scaffold other than a standard independent now!!

The topic that took up a bulk of the time was apprenticeships, we need a scheme that can help new blood into the Industry that is based on CISRS & in house training. It may be that larger firms may have to help with this because the training centres are not set up to follow this through properly. I have tried to get one of our trainees onto an apprentice scheme but as there is not a college that will undertake a 1 day a week course for him locally then it may be a non starter. So can you have the industry helping itself, larger firms stepping in to help without poaching!!

New guys to the industry need to get trained with experience, set parameters & carful planning. Again the apprenticeship scheme should run a minimum of two years to obtain the part 2 & it needs to be available to the whole Industry.

To sum up I feel & I think I am speaking for the forum when I say the following issues need clarity or action.

1/ CISRS needs a major overhaul, an independent body formed form within the Industry to iron out the creases.

2/ Once the above has been achieved clarity that it is the main qualification to obtain as an Industry standard.

3/ The above to form a full apprenticeship scheme.

4/ Clarity on wording in the regs that a Scaffolder is a qualified person not just listed as competent. This would then give issue & meaning to the above & bring some respect back into our job.

I will now come off my soap box & plan the next report.

Ragscaff reporting on HSE meeting 26/5/10.
 
yes come on every body now is the time to voice everything cos i need to build up all your feedback so we tackle this at the meeting. we are doing for you all after all...

Get your memberships in to the SCCR...
 
More or less agree Ragscaff except on the point of not being allowed to put yourself through these tickets. I was put through the old part 1 with mowlem and after that I had to do the rest myself getting my advanced a good 10 years or more later. I think I know why you want to put that restriction in there, I take it it's regarding experience. When I did it I had loads of experience for the job in question and learnt very little from the citb, I did 90% of my learning from more experienced hands.

I also think that individual training centres take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves is this the standard of training that is going to carry this lad through 40 odd years of work. The last time I was there to do my advanced it was a joke and got very bored very quick so how the ecitb guy's feel doing their part 1 again is beyond me. During this time I got speaking to one of the trainers who told me to send all the young boy's to him and he would send me back a good scaff, well I feel as if I kept my part of the bargain but feel let down when they troop back as useless as when they went away, regaling us all with tails of how they sat in class most of the time listening to storey's of the grand old day's of yore. I don't mind the time, as long as it's spent productively.

Also, the citb themselves should also take a look at themselves, calling me on a Wednesday afternoon to say a boy is going to college for three weeks on Monday is not on, then to follow that up with a site visit on a Friday afternoon to tell me that another is going the following Monday for 2 weeks just smack's of poor management. I have their college timetable in the office and neither of these dates is on it. I know that as an employer we have to be adaptable to suit but every lad I have ever sent has come across the same problems time after time.

Apart from that, I think their doing a brilliant job.:sick:
 
Can someone explain the statement about the CISRS card being too easy to obtain... when all you had to do to get a ECIB ticket was apply for it. no testing or anything ?? I'll stand corrected , but the assessed route was open for 2 years was'nt it ?? why did'nt the guys do that, instead of being in the state their in now ie. no valid card..
 
here we go again read the threads iam getting board now.
 
cassie said:
Can someone explain the statement about the CISRS card being too easy to obtain... when all you had to do to get a ECIB ticket was apply for it. no testing or anything ?? I'll stand corrected , but the assessed route was open for 2 years was'nt it ?? why did'nt the guys do that, instead of being in the state their in now ie. no valid card..
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Hi Cassie, I have sent a few boy's for their cisrs card and each time they come back they have learned very little if anything at all. I know there is meant to be an assessment stage but have yet to hear of anyone failing it and it appears to be nothing more of an attendance course. No one is slating the cisrs ticket, just trying to improve what a lot of employers in our industry see as a poor quality money making scheme which offers very little benefit to us or the individual. Read the ecitb thread for all the information you need on that little fiasco.
 
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Thanks for the reply AOM.. Dico.. sorry for boring you mate.. err ..no I'm not , sorry for not reading every fuckin post pal..
 
No bother Cassie, just the scaff's getting and sticking together to improve our industry for all, join the Sccr.
 
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