run before you can walk

Jason-Gibbs said:
I was working for the Salvation Army, as a Trumpet Master, 6 months ago and i found a paper clipping about Scaffolders and how they 'could' earn over £9.50 an hour, so i did a few courses and here i am.

IT WAS THE WORST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE!!!

:amazed::laugh::cheesy:


Seriously though... the CITB do need to sort out their policy, as it seems that they are more interested in a pound note, then actually doing their jobs correctly.

6 months is NO WAY near enough time to be let loose on a site and asked and given the responsibility to put a Scaffold up unsupervised.
F.uck me, i was Labouring for over 3 years before i was even allowed near a fitting, let alone let run riot over a job.

It should be:
  • 0 - 2.5 years = Labourer.
  • 2.5 - 5 years = Trainee.
  • 5 - 7.5 year = Part 1 Scaffolder.
  • 7.5 - 10 years = Part 2 Scaffolder.
  • 10 years + = Advanced Scaffolder.
At the very least.
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**** me Jase, it only takes 7 years to be a vet...:blink1:
 
Some people take to scaffolding like a duck to water, others who i call 40ft scaffolders will never make it as long as they have a hole in their arse
 
daftscaff said:
As already stated the part 1 is only a trainees card.having gained the part 1 you are then allowed to work on the erection of scaffolds along with journeymen scaffolders,none of us were born with spanners on everyday is an education.
The ecitb and the earlier eitb cards were dished out willy nilly and guys looked after.
I feel that unless scaffolding gets the full trade recognition it deserves with a proper apprenticeship then we will always be having this debate
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thats what supposed to happen daftscaff but theres agencys out there that advertise for part 1 scaffolders if there any good when the clients desperate and cant get a part 2 alls well if they have the exsperience if not the doors left wide open for chancers!!! make you right with the apprenticeship thou nothing beats exsperience.
 
jason try blowing trumpet and you could end up climbing the ladder :eek:agencys advertising for part 1s to go on a site and fanny about is a problem that has to dealt with
as i already stated we should be trying for full trade recognition and a proper apprenticeship
not all scaffolders are up for sliding down a 21 over the side of a 200 foot viaduct,but if given a wee bit of time they and tutoring from the right people they should in time.
its the cants with the cards that need a **** everytime it comes to the tricky stuff that does my head in,but then try to tell the gaffer when he appears that it was his idea and how he done it himself that bug my brain:mad:
 
daftscaff said:
its the cants with the cards that need a **** everytime it comes to the tricky stuff that does my head in,but then try to tell the gaffer when he appears that it was his idea and how he done it himself that bug my brain:mad:
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Thats what i usually do... its worked a treat so far. ;)
They call me: Shiit House Jay, on my job for some reason.


Honestly though:
I dont think that its got much to do with how much training someone has had, to whether they are lazy or not.

Theres a few proper 'Driftwood' where i am and some of them have been doing the job longer then me, but they just aint got it in them to wanna get their hands dirty and get stuck in.
(F.ucking iPhones are a big problem, with lazy-arse Scaffolders.) :mad:

Another thing it could be mate, is that the way things are nowadays with Reality TV, so-called Talent Shows and even the National Lottery is that society promotes the easy route and the fast way... No one wants to start off at the bottom anymore, no one wants to graft and learn and take shiit, before they are in the position to be the ones giving it back.

People no matter what age they start this job wanna earn the top money and do all the decent stuff immediately.


Society plays a part in even how things go, on a building site.
How many people wanna break their backs anymore?
I know i dont... but ive done my share of smashing by body to bits, so i can get away with it, tbh... but even newer Scaffolders dont wanna kill themselves, or even attempt to graft a bit, like we ALL had to, when we was younger.


But, i do agree with nearly everyone here.

Its time the CITB and NASC, HSE and also the SCCR do need to get together and make sure once and for all that Scaffolding is classified as a real trade, with real apprenticeships and get the real recognition it deserves, that we are all hardworking, skilled and intelligent tradesman and NOT the Neanderthal thugs that we're made out to be.

Not just any Tom, Diick or Harry can put a job up, you need years of training and experience and most importantly above all, you need a little bit of pride/passion and ooompf for the job. :)
 
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Good title Dico...Run before you walk,got me thinking about a career change. Sooo, if Simian are running 3 day accountancy courses???I can then apply for a job with Bettertax counting teabags and bogrolls or something. On completion of course maybe Simian will dish out a shiny new abacus,lol
 
Yeah jason , i agree with everything uve said there , i think youre earlier comment just expresses how dissalusioned people like you , me and others on this site are with the scaffolding industry , ive been at it 13 years , offshore 5 , but im havin to re-train , doin part 1 in 3 weeks time. CITB/CISRS gave accreditation to the place where i done my training , then decided years later the place was a joke (it was a joke) so ive been unemployable for the past year , back to the start. I posted elsewhere about them making people do courses in the systems now also, my m8 is on ****** building sites , hes a part 2 , and site agent says to him you'll have to go and do kwikstage course to work on this site, cost £365 , then you go to another site and its cuplok , so then , oh you have to do cuplok training , cost £365. I called the glasgow training college(hillington) and said to the guy " when i leave here with a part 1 in tube and fitting then go to say INTERSERVE i cant work for them cause im not qualified in kwikstage and same with SGB, not qualified in cuplok," he's saying to me "oh its ok they will pay for it for you" and im saying to him that hes missing the point , im payin £895 and still cant get a job because i will still need more training , and hes just telling me a lot of ****. I DIDNT TELL HIM ID BEEN DOIN THE JOB 13 YEARS , I ACTED LIKE I KNEW NOTHING AND WAS JUST ENTERING SCAFFOLDING KNOWING NOTHING , even when you phone up to book it , right away its just "can i have your debit or credit card number" they dont even ask or make checks into what experience if any you might have. If i didnt have the ability to go offshore and make good money i would just give up and become a painter or something. I CANT BELIEVE THAT THEY THINK THEY CAN MAKE GUYS LIKE MY M8 WHOS PART 2 AND BEEN SCAFFOLDING 15 YEARS PAY ALL THIS MONEY FOR 2 DAY SYSTEMS COURSES OR THEY CANT WORK AT CERTAIN PLACES especially in the economic climate were livin in at the moment , they want to see you with your card and on the back of it , it sayin part 2 t+f , kwikstage,cuplok,turner plus 8 and whatever other s*** they might add . What a coincidence its the sytems of the companies who make up the NASC , i understand and know too much about the way our industry is and it depresses me , the situation in glasgow especially is beyond a joke , im the small space between my finger and thumb away from burning them all down to the ground, going to get a rope now, **** this.

---------- Post added at 12:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 AM ----------

just read your post there Frederik , brilliant , hilarious, ive put suicide on hold for now, cheers

---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------

on x factor, the risk are a cert to win , forecast of them winning and janet devlin comin second is around 6/1 with ladsbroke , frankie should be gone this week but he wont, it will be either RYTHMIX OR kITTY
 
nasc theve had plenty of chances to have a meeting with ragscaff and the sccr ragscaff has tried many a time to arrange one jason there leters and emails dont arrive for some reason either that or they dont want a meeting probably cos they have a member on the forum that bumps hes gums to them daily just glad they dont own the forum it would cost you every time you logged on ha ha !!!
 
I cant see why your complaining... consider yourself lucky that you are in the position to get your CISRS Card, no matter what colour it is, sorted out.

Theres plenty of guys out of work, due to having plenty of experience and no way to prove it.


EVERYONE here needs to get with the program... Pure stubbornness will NOT put food on the table or pay the bills.
CISRS Cards will.

In a few years, no one, no matter who they are or what they can do will be able to even out a belt on unless they have a valid and in-date Scaffolding Card.


The time of: 'No Card - No Work' is coming and it will apply to ALL firms, big or small and we all need to be prepared for when it does.
 
Jason-Gibbs said:
The time of: 'No Card - No Work' is coming and it will apply to ALL firms, big or small and we all need to be prepared for when it does.
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I'd like to agree it'll move towards professionalism but there just seems to be more and more cowboy firms popping up doing jobs for £250 or less....

This industry p!sses me off sometimes, demanding cards constantly yet few firms will train their men! We have to pay for it our damn selves, just to try to remain valuable so come winter we hope it's the useless pr*cks that face the chop instead of us.

Take up any other job and they put you through training, they pay you while you do it. This industry is just full of empty promises.

Stuff it I'm getting another beer :cry:
 
Flinty said:
I'd like to agree it'll move towards professionalism but there just seems to be more and more cowboy firms popping up doing jobs for £250 or less....

This industry p!sses me off sometimes, demanding cards constantly yet few firms will train their men! We have to pay for it our damn selves, just to try to remain valuable so come winter we hope it's the useless pr*cks that face the chop instead of us.

Take up any other job and they put you through training, they pay you while you do it. This industry is just full of empty promises.

Stuff it I'm getting another beer :cry:
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I had the same conversation with a guy i was working last night.
I work on one of the biggest jobs in London and i wont lie... the money is really good and you'd think that with such a job, that there would be some decent blokes there? Makes sense dont it?
But... apart from about a handful of us, there are some seriously shiite Scaffolders, who do nothing but toss it off, hide, f.uck off home early and leave the same usual suspects in the shiit, finishing the job off...

Last night was the same.
The same old faces putting the effort into getting the job done - Myself, Essex, MightyMouse, along with a few others, who we're still trying to get to come onto the Forum.


And you know what?
Us 3 along with the others who - week in, week out make sure that jobs are done and things are sorted are going to be the first out the door, because life is f.ucking unfair.


Scaffolding is a very unfair and underrated job.


But i still stand by my views that:

If you dont have a valid CISRS Card (Trainee, Part 1, Part2 or Advanced) - YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET A JOB IN A FEW YEARS.
Tbh, its coming round faster then you will realise... I for one haven't been offered a job in about 5 years, without them asking me, if i have a valid CISRS Card.
All employers want to see them now.


Now the ECITB situation is unfair... f.uck, its downright out of order but there is nothing any of us can do about it.
Sometimes life is unfair and sometimes life is cruel. This is one of those times.
Stewart and Andy and the rest of the SCCR team are busting their balls to get this resolved and touch-wood it will be and the ruling will be in our favour, then not.

For now, EVERYONE will have to just suck it up and get themselves sorted with a CISRS Card or hang tight where they are and hopefully the ECITB farce will be sorted out.


Unlike the unlucky ECITB guys, there is also ALOT of Scaffolders out there who have not got any cards and the reason is: They CANNOT be bothered. Theres no sugar coating it, its a fact.
You can ask any Scaffolder and theres alot who say: "F.uck the silly card, i know how to Scaffold, without some w@nky ticket" - or there abouts...

This is the wrong attitude, im afraid to say.


Scaffolding tickets DO NOT make you any better at the job.
Not at all. I have worked with crap Scaffolders who have tickets coming out their ears with 30+ years on the spanners and worked with good Scaffolders with no tickets and only 5 years under their belts.

Scaffolding is an easy job - Its the people you work with/work for that make it hard.
  • Good Scaffolders CAN be bothered.
  • Bad Scaffolders CANNOT be bothered.
Simple as that.
 
Jason-Gibbs said:
Unlike the unlucky ECITB guys, there is also ALOT of Scaffolders out there who have not got any cards and the reason is: They CANNOT be bothered. Theres no sugar coating it, its a fact.
You can ask any Scaffolder and theres alot who say: "F.uck the silly card, i know how to Scaffold, without some w@nky ticket" - or there abouts...

This is the wrong attitude, im afraid to say.
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Funny that, they're normally the ones also complaining that scaffolding is not seen as a profession, or only semi skilled.... :rolleyes:
 
Ive worked with loads like that.
"Pfft, who needs a ticket... i been in the game for 37 years and not needed one yet!"

Just before they use a clip instead of a double on the top of a brace... :notrust:
 
I have met some first class scaffolders without tickets Jason and i only have mine 5 years after nearly 32 years in the game the ticket dont mean jack in my mind , i have also met lads with every ticket you can think of that couldnt scaffold a hen house
 
I 100% agree.
But i dont make the rules.

A ticket dont make a Scaffolder, but employers wont give you a job, unless you have a valid and recognised CISRS ticket.
 
But not a valid and recognised eictb ticket???? (untill the end of the year) Who made the rules? Who changes the rules? Who gives a tosh about making men unemployed. Im a soldier,been serving for 20 years. Best go an be a boy scout now cos you aint trained properly. You dont understand the modern rules, we got a load of 18 year olds who do understand the new system. God is on our side,hope our new boys dont sh.t themselves when the first raghead says boo. Rant not over.
Amawaytorapemesel. but first anutha rum to relax
 
Jason-Gibbs said:
I 100% agree.
But i dont make the rules.

A ticket dont make a Scaffolder, but employers wont give you a job, unless you have a valid and recognised CISRS ticket.
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True... no CISRS.. no job. I could'nt set anyone on without the CISRS card.. right or wrong thats how it is...
 
Scaffoldings a strange job to be in. The length of time on the tools doesn't really determine how good you are. If you spend 10 years on a housing site you will be good at independents but not a lot else. Then someone could spend say 4 years doing all different jobs hangers ,towers, shores etc not as long time served but more experience on all different aspects of scaffolding.
So who would be the most qualified scaff?

We do need a card scheme of some sort but the one we have is shiit its about time colleges got involved and offered a few years training both classroom and on site then assessed at the end of the course. This 4 wks of so called training to be a part 2 is a joke.
 
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