Poll

Are Designers


  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .
Adds up now...

I may have made some comments about Engineers & Lawyers - don't suppose there are any Lawyers in the house?
 
Hi Tim
After a few email exchanges I have received all I need to see unfortunately on this occasion u have dropped a b** lock. Personally I'd hold my hands up! Court of law your knackered bud! Simple as!

As my last post has been moderated I think I need to be a bit more tactful.
Do you think it is a bit unpleasant to be slating someone's livelihood like you are on an open forum purely just to score points for someone and kiss ar&e.
 
As my last post has been moderated I think I need to be a bit more tactful.
Do you think it is a bit unpleasant to be slating someone's livelihood like you are on an open forum purely just to score points for someone and kiss ar&e.

Whoops it wasn't moderated just didn't show up...
 
If there were any lawyers on here this forum would have been shut down yrs ago!
 
So you are saying Tim is incompetent then?
We know you are not Terry.
 
Well someone who starts a poll on a scaffolders forum about designers loves causing trouble or likes talking about themselves. I was talking about designers in general I have not worked with Tim or know/care who he is.
He/IDH has posted half a picture of a over engineered loading bay with regards to check fittings that I am allowed to laugh and poke fun at because before designers came along with there size 6 brogues we got on just fine.
 
Not my loading bay (I think??) & not my post!

However, without seeing the design brief I wouldn't judge if it were over-engineered or not.

I suspect it is also, but perhaps they wanted high point loading from a pallet truck for instance?
 
How does your design assist your client to comply with all current regulations regarding build ability issues Tim? It's OK attempting to confuse who you view as laymen, in this case scaffolders, that you have designed a scheme without ties being necessary, but this pure rubbish & misdirection by you. Post the scheme calculations proving this point!? That's your job isn't it? Prove the temporary roof doesn't need ties? You client must tie his scaffolding structure at a basic 16m2 grid pattern to enable them to build upwards correctly. Where did your client clip on in this case? There is more than ledger bracing missing from those photos too! Also you do not omit elevation of design scheme because your client cannot afford to pay for them. You have a duty of care & must provide the technical information required, not provide how much of it a client can afford. That is a shocking admission to make. This particular design scheme is woefully short of accepted industry standards regarding the information provided & the scaffolding would fail the most basic of inspections. You & your client are happy together so there is no problem, until an accident occurs of course.
 
You seem to have missed the point of the entire thread - I was sending myself / designers up in general for a bit of a laugh. Can't be serious all the time.

Generally speaking I got exactly the responses I was expecting with a lot of humour thrown in. What I didn't expect were many of the positive & supportive responses - thank you to everyone who took part.
 
How does your design assist your client to comply with all current regulations regarding build ability issues Tim? It's OK attempting to confuse who you view as laymen, in this case scaffolders, that you have designed a scheme without ties being necessary, but this pure rubbish & misdirection by you. Post the scheme calculations proving this point!? That's your job isn't it? Prove the temporary roof doesn't need ties? You client must tie his scaffolding structure at a basic 16m2 grid pattern to enable them to build upwards correctly. Where did your client clip on in this case? There is more than ledger bracing missing from those photos too! Also you do not omit elevation of design scheme because your client cannot afford to pay for them. You have a duty of care & must provide the technical information required, not provide how much of it a client can afford. That is a shocking admission to make. This particular design scheme is woefully short of accepted industry standards regarding the information provided & the scaffolding would fail the most basic of inspections. You & your client are happy together so there is no problem, until an accident occurs of course.


Why does it need 'physical ties' at a 16m2 grid? That is TG20 guidance for you to build 'idealistic' scaffolds, and when this is not possible the scaffold requires a design. If the designer has calculated the scaffold and it does not fail then he has done his job. If the building is listed and you cannot put physical anchors into the building then an alternative method needed to be sought. Which it has. Why should he be forced to show the calcs on here? What are you, judge and jury?
There is no question of Tim's integrity, as my dealings with him in the past has involved his integrity being put on the line and he refused to compromise.

Again, this is a mans business you are trying to score points with.

Also there is a scaffold company's name noted on the drawing, the scaffold company that erected the scaffold. They both do not deserve this as this forum has in the past refrained from 'naming and shaming'.

Take your bullying back to LinkedIn.
 
See how the designer disappears over the hill when relevant question are asked about build ability issues within his scheme? It didn't NEED ties.....oh dear. My clients have a budget so I only provide what they can afford, not what i am ethically & professionally bound to provide. Imagine those statements being given in court as a defence? Your Honour - "it's a tragedy the scaffolder fell to his death building/dismantling the structure I designed for him without ties........but it was his stupidity to clip his harness to that scaffolding structure! Also, I cannot be held responsible for the bridging structure collapsing......it was the stupid scaffolder's fault for erecting it without an elevation drawing!" Judge: - " Why didn't your client have a drawing for this elevation detailing how he should build it safely & compliantly?" Designer: - "My client didn't have the money in his budget for a complete scheme your Honour, hardly my fault is it? I provided what he could afford......anyway that bridging section detail didn't need any ties in it!" Forget the petty points scoring & look at the facts:- the scaffolding structure was not built to design & the scheme was incomplete & devoid of critical detail required to ensure the structure was built compliantly. The structure would fail an inspection process & therefore someone/everyone is at fault here.
 
Not my loading bay (I think??) & not my post!

However, without seeing the design brief I wouldn't judge if it were over-engineered or not.

I suspect it is also, but perhaps they wanted high point loading from a pallet truck for instance?

In true Jason Gibbs style I apologise I have been bantering with the wrong person and dragon den style I am out
 
IDH JOB:

Plastered on Facebook & Twitter yesterday is a photograph of a tube & fitting/tin sheet temporary roof structure & accompanying design scheme. The scaffolding structure has NOT been built according to the content of 2x design drawings (missing ledger bracing, roof beam chord bracing etc) and the design scheme drawings themselves do not provide enough information or elevation views, to enable a mere layman to interpret them correctly. There is no tie information on the design drawings mirroring the lack of ties in the scaffolding structure....except for 1x "after thought" tie around the internal chimney stack. The design drawings remain mainly rely on coloured lines to impart information (great if the layman is colour blind!) and do not follow the accepted standards of best practise regarding content set out in BS:8888. I appreciate that this is subjective to interpretation, but in my opinion the standard is there to establish best practise & these particular design drawing to not follow the contents of that standard! The scaffolding structure in question relies upon a bridging beam configuration to provide stability for 1-side of the Temporary roof support, but the design drawings have not been produced for this particular elevation. How is a layman (a scaffolder according to some!) expected to interpret (guess?) the tie-patterns and beam bracing requirements if that elevation view hasn't been provided by the designer in question? How has the designer "proved" that the calculations have been considered for this elevation within the scaffolding structural configuration?

Did the designer not "understand" what the scaffolding installer required when undertaking the "site investigation" as part of the site visit process? Is the scaffolder (sorry layman) then expected to just "make it up" or interpret the design drawing however he wants? Does the scaffolder have to wait for a passing Lawyer or Doctor to explain the lack of detail & elevational content to him before proceeding? If certain Design Engineer company owners dismiss scaffolders as simply layman, how does he expect them to interpret the content of his schemes, even in the event they actually contained the complete amounts of information & detail necessary? On what grounds is the scaffolder expected to question or complain, being of a lower intellect? Surely that is exactly what the layman requires in these circumstances......his hand being held by the charging professional? So who is to blame in this particular situation then? The scaffolder for not building the structure to the incomplete (elevational view/detail) design scheme? Maybe the owner of this particular design company ought to attend a 3-day course on business management, communication, providing adequate supervision of staff & maintaining/enforcing standards, or more commonly known as a Health & Safety management course. I would suggest a quick refresher on the content of TG20:08 too, as this structural scheme was installed using traditional tube & fittings. I am also very interested in how this structure was built safely, due to the lack of ties & detail in both the completed structure & the design scheme? It is fine belittling others profession & skill sets, whilst demonstrating a level of arrogance & ignorance reserved for the "holier than thou" brigade, but I suggest one really should get his house in order & pay attention to the small detail before stupidly sounding off.

Not even 1 reply from IDH on this matter! Ignorance at the highest level!

What makes you think scaffolders have a lower intellect Rachet? You are talking like a Health and Safety "professional".
 
See how the designer disappears over the hill when relevant question are asked about build ability issues within his scheme? It didn't NEED ties.....oh dear. My clients have a budget so I only provide what they can afford, not what i am ethically & professionally bound to provide. Imagine those statements being given in court as a defence? Your Honour - "it's a tragedy the scaffolder fell to his death building/dismantling the structure I designed for him without ties........but it was his stupidity to clip his harness to that scaffolding structure! Also, I cannot be held responsible for the bridging structure collapsing......it was the stupid scaffolder's fault for erecting it without an elevation drawing!" Judge: - " Why didn't your client have a drawing for this elevation detailing how he should build it safely & compliantly?" Designer: - "My client didn't have the money in his budget for a complete scheme your Honour, hardly my fault is it? I provided what he could afford......anyway that bridging section detail didn't need any ties in it!" Forget the petty points scoring & look at the facts:- the scaffolding structure was not built to design & the scheme was incomplete & devoid of critical detail required to ensure the structure was built compliantly. The structure would fail an inspection process & therefore someone/everyone is at fault here.

So in your attempt to prove you are right you are prepared to blight 2 companies reputations? The scaffold company I know to be very professional and a good set up. The designer is professional and one of the good designers out there and believe me I have used some very bad designers.
I know who you are wummer and I know who ratchet is. You are neither a scaffolder or have ever worked for a scaffolding company you are aligned to this industry as a H&S professional. Bore off with the judge and defendant nonsense and go and put the frighteners on companies who deserve it. These do not.
 
Why does it need 'physical ties' at a 16m2 grid? That is TG20 guidance for you to build 'idealistic' scaffolds, and when this is not possible the scaffold requires a design. If the designer has calculated the scaffold and it does not fail then he has done his job. If the building is listed and you cannot put physical anchors into the building then an alternative method needed to be sought. Which it has. Why should he be forced to show the calcs on here? What are you, judge and jury?
There is no question of Tim's integrity, as my dealings with him in the past has involved his integrity being put on the line and he refused to compromise.

Again, this is a mans business you are trying to score points with.

Also there is a scaffold company's name noted on the drawing, the scaffold company that erected the scaffold. They both do not deserve this as this forum has in the past refrained from 'naming and shaming'.

Take your bullying back to LinkedIn.


You can't hide behind an alias on Linkedin.
 
The pic posted was not a IDH job, sorry for any confusion. It was an example of why some designers do themselves no favours.
 
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