Paying basics advanced money

im right in thinking you run your own little company am i not m8? how many scaffs do you have on for you? and do all you scaffs have indate cards?
 
haha, I do Johnny, only 6 at the moment all carded my wee mate has just returned with a shiny new advanced card.
 
wasnt being funny m8 theres a couple of companys in this area who will still give you work if you dont have a card
 
No, fair enough Johnny. It's just I spend a lot of time and effort trying to comply with as many of the rules and regulations as possible and using carded labour is the least of my worries, that's why I smiled mate.
 
im not saying no basic scaffolder should get the advanced money cause we do have some good lads workin with us that do deserve it but iv worked with lads with a basic card that wont get of the floor unless they have a fully boarded lift with h/rail and and they just dont have a clue but there still getting advanced money and they wont do the work cause they im only a basic scaffolder if you getting the money you should be at least able to do the job.
 
Can't argue with that Johnny, it's like everything else though it depends very much on who you are on for and where you are working. When I saw your post it reminded me of being off shore where all on board is paid rig rate no matter your skill except the welders which is fair enough. On a personal level, I would love to have the luxury of being able to afford an experienced guy with lots of experience who would not be required to do his fair share but the truth is I need everyone to generate cash and get the job done so it is just not an option for me. Put your name forward to get the advanced training, even although it won't make you a better scaff.
 
It used to be a part of the working rule agreement if you were a basic scaffolder for two years or more and your company didn't differentiate between basic and advanced when handing out the work, they were entitled to advanced rate but you don't really hear of it now days as if they can save a penny they will. They would much rather bring the advanced rate down to the basic.
 
If you are on blue book you SHOULD get paid Advanced Craft rate (Grade 5) if you have 2 or more years experience as a Basic Scaff (Grade 4).

This is stated in section 5.4.2 part (b) of the agreement.
 
im all for it...if their worth it...pay it!!Then they can save up for an advanced course!!shame assessed route isnt available,,,,they would only loose 2 wkends of wages:p
 
johnymush said:
im not saying no basic scaffolder should get the advanced money cause we do have some good lads workin with us that do deserve it but iv worked with lads with a basic card that wont get of the floor unless they have a fully boarded lift with h/rail and and they just dont have a clue but there still getting advanced money and they wont do the work cause they im only a basic scaffolder if you getting the money you should be at least able to do the job.
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yes yes yes!! johnymush make you right you have the ticket you should be competent. i dont give a monkeys if berts getting £500 a day more than me but when ive had to go back with thosands of ecitb scaffolders to re train it annoyes me. yes it wont never change with ecitb ticket coz we ante got thosands to ever fight the case. thats why ragscaff and the sccr never followed it up as i didnt want him to follow it up and waste anymore of the sccr or ragscaffs time. so this one theve got away with!!! but whats wrong is scaffolders with the cisrs tickets that no fook all!! iam not on about the lazy scaffolder or the plooder thats slow. the ones that are so unexsperienced they have the ticket but cant do the job as johnymush says!! lets all be honnest even the local milkman can be qualified in a short time. the photo evidence could be fiddled and so can the portfollio just get someone else to do it!! why not bring out some kind of computor programe that has loads of scaffolds to build and the candidate has to build the job from scratch a bit like the programe that builds the scaffold for your drawings but make the programes different so they can not be fiddled in stead of the 1 day assecment and the portfollio cisrs and nasc must have enough money to produce this computor programe!! no pass no ticket ps if they do i want a cut for the idear lol!!!
 
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Not a bad idea that Kev, that would sort a few of them out for sure.;)
 
yes yes yes!! johnymush make you right you have the ticket you should be competent. i dont give a monkeys if berts getting £500 a day more than me but when ive had to go back with thosands of ecitb scaffolders to re train it annoyes me. yes it wont never change with ecitb ticket coz we ante got thosands to ever fight the case. thats why ragscaff and the sccr never followed it up as i didnt want him to follow it up and waste anymore of the sccr or ragscaffs time. so this one theve got away with!!! but whats wrong is scaffolders with the cisrs tickets that no fook all!! iam not on about the lazy scaffolder or the plooder thats slow. the ones that are so unexsperienced they have the ticket but cant do the job as johnymush says!! lets all be honnest even the local milkman can be qualified in a short time. the photo evidence could be fiddled and so can the portfollio just get someone else to do it!! why not bring out some kind of computor programe that has loads of scaffolds to build and the candidate has to build the job from scratch a bit like the programe that builds the scaffold for your drawings but make the programes different so they can not be fiddled in stead of the 1 day assecment and the portfollio cisrs and nasc must have enough money to produce this computor programe!! no pass no ticket ps if they do i want a cut for the idear lol!!!

Probably one of the better ideas for a shake up of the CISRS scheme.
If CADS can provide an interactive programme for TG20:13 they could surely provide NASC/CISRS with the software for this.
 
Doing it on screen is nothing like erecting in real life,just because someone lands a plane on a flight simulater don't mean he can fly a plane in real life,mind you,the super Mario generation would be alright,lol;)
 
bigfish said:
Doing it on screen is nothing like erecting in real life,just because someone lands a plane on a flight simulater don't mean he can fly a plane in real life,mind you,the super Mario generation would be alright,lol;)
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that gezzer on snakes on a plan did it lol!!! how i look at it this portpollio can be fiddled same as the photos that was the olde. do the courses then get marked as you do by the scaffold trainer. then go back the same as you would do for the 1 day to get your ticket but!! instead of building a job do the test in a quite room like the cscs test but different modules for each course but 1 that changes daily lets be honnest theres thosands of different scaffolds to build if there was a good programe. they do the same on the national grid competent person course you move the mouse to move the componets about so if you put it in the wrong place you fail!! each module say has a pass rate out of a 100% if you fail you do another year on the tools and try again if your a part 1 your no the very basics. if your a part 2 and you no your stuff any module should be a walk in the park. but change the programe daily with different situations. and the same as advanced you got a gold card you should be able to deal with any situation thats put in front of you. i may sound like a victor meldrew but when youve got references and been payed advanced rate for 2 decades then have your rate dropped to basic as youve had a ecitb it winds me up when scaffolders get a card with no exsperience and cant do the job when put in front of them its a shambles and dangerous.
 
I can think of one programme already out there that does something similar. It's used at the moment as a learning tool rather than a test, but don't think it would take much to alter it, it;s a brilliant bit of kit.
 
bigfish said:
Doing it on screen is nothing like erecting in real life,just because someone lands a plane on a flight simulater don't mean he can fly a plane in real life,mind you,the super Mario generation would be alright,lol;)
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How do they train pilots then? Dont they first have to master the simulator before they let them loose with an A380?
 
Hey Dico, they don't use photos anymore. It's all evidence on whether the job actually took place. I don't know how water tight new system is. From my experience I'd like to see that your actual scaffolding ability, not your ability to memorise answers to a multi choice questionnaire, playing the major part in whether you pass or fail a part.
 
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