Hilti tie loads

The nylon anchor would beed to be tested to 3 times the impact load which would indicate a pull test of 18kN.

Not many people trying to test these to 18kn Alan. Since we last spoke I have asked anyone who will listen and they all tell me they only do preliminary testing if there is doubt and go straight for the proof tests. Also, spoke with Apollo who told me that their nylon is suitable to be used in all these substrates and the creep they talk about can occur but only after about 10 years of stress.
 
Alan Reade said:
Morning Cala
the load requirement is no to do with the weight of the man it is to do with the impact of the weight of the man falling. I.E. the arresting force which is around 6kN this is around 3 times the weight of your 13st man.

---------- Post added at 02:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 AM ----------



Morning Jay
In the case of a Hilti anchor it would depend on the Hilti to be used. You cannot clip onto a ring bolt they are for pull out only and not designed for a vertical impact load.
regards
Alan

---------- Post added at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 AM ----------



Morning Jackdan
this was my first thought also, however upon reflection not so sure. If the B&P is bolted to the wall and the tubes run between two fixings the B&P will be what we used to call "chinkey" ie flat to its load bearing capacity. Remember the load to resist is 6kN assuming the chap falls close to either anchor the full load to the tie point would be close to the B&P SWL in the right direction let alone the non load bearing direction.
Yopu may have to turn the B&P flat on the wall put a vertival butt and then 2 horizontals to stop the rotation upon impact????
regards
Alan

---------- Post added at 02:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 AM ----------



The Hilti ring on a HKD Shield is the same as it always has been, but for the time I have been in the industry it has been incorrectley used. IE in brickwork. Hilti have always refused to give data on the use of the HKD in brick. The ring has never been approved for a vertical load and should not be used in this fashion.
The nylon anchor would beed to be tested to 3 times the impact load which would indicate a pull test of 18kN.
This method is not to be advised
regards
Alan
Click to expand...

Thanks Alan, I'm going with a fall arrest system, definately... I'm sure something like the Hilti would be ok, but in this day and age, gotta be sure 100%...
 
aom said:
The nylon anchor would beed to be tested to 3 times the impact load which would indicate a pull test of 18kN.

Not many people trying to test these to 18kn Alan. Since we last spoke I have asked anyone who will listen and they all tell me they only do preliminary testing if there is doubt and go straight for the proof tests. Also, spoke with Apollo who told me that their nylon is suitable to be used in all these substrates and the creep they talk about can occur but only after about 10 years of stress.
Click to expand...

10 years of stress is nothing 36 years of stress I've had :nuts:
 
Yeah I hear that. I'm only on at this time as we were meant to go to Mull to check a job that has suffered some movement due to last weeks high winds and the ferries are off again because of yes you guessed it the high winds. Looks like another day in the yard.:(
 
Just a surgestion but band and plate hilti tied to the brick work will give vertical loads ? you would just need to check with designer regarding the shock loads ?
 
Would this work ? take a vertical load.. ?? If so great...
 
try looking at band and plate tied to the wall with excalibur hex bolts. according to their website the M16 bolt has a tensile load of 30kn and a shear load of 26kn. mite be worth getting in touch with them to find out for sure.
 
Thanks mate...

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

Just spoke to Excalibur and their tech manager is going to call me back... coolio....
 
Cala
it may be an easy answer to find a suitable anchorage ie the self tapping bolt into the wall but how are you going to anchor yourself to the band and plate?
 
Is there not now lots of different brackets and plates that accept tube you could bolt to the wall and run the tube from or is that just a lot of hard work?
 
Alan Reade said:
Cala
it may be an easy answer to find a suitable anchorage ie the self tapping bolt into the wall but how are you going to anchor yourself to the band and plate?
Click to expand...

Will run tube the full length thru the B and P mate... looks like I'm sorted...

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

Forgot to add I will then clip on the tube as a running line...
 
Morning Cala
unless I am missing something I understand you intend to put two vertical B&P 6 or 8 ft apart and run a horizontal tube between them to which you will clip.
Should you have the misfortune to fall whils in the span you will induce a bending into the tube to which you are clipped which in this instance will indue a horizontal force into the B&P. The load will be applied to the B&P in what is known as chinkey fashion (sideways on) the B&P is not designed to withstand a force in this direction. Which was my earlier point.
Not looking to be bloody minded just drawing your attention to two things
1) these are the facts
2) its you thats clipped to it
regards
Alan
 
aom said:
Is there not now lots of different brackets and plates that accept tube you could bolt to the wall and run the tube from or is that just a lot of hard work?
Click to expand...

I am almost certain that Hilti used to do a window cleaners fixing which to all intentes was a small stainless ring which was designed for the prupose however I do not think this allows you to traverse. But if there was one at each end with a wire between this may surfice?
 
Alan Reade said:
Morning Cala
unless I am missing something I understand you intend to put two vertical B&P 6 or 8 ft apart and run a horizontal tube between them to which you will clip.
Should you have the misfortune to fall whils in the span you will induce a bending into the tube to which you are clipped which in this instance will indue a horizontal force into the B&P. The load will be applied to the B&P in what is known as chinkey fashion (sideways on) the B&P is not designed to withstand a force in this direction. Which was my earlier point.
Not looking to be bloody minded just drawing your attention to two things
1) these are the facts
2) its you thats clipped to it
regards
Alan
Click to expand...

Thanks Alan, much apprteciated mate..

---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

Pick your brains again Alan if i can mate

If I excalibur bolt b and P 6ft centres and use an inertia reel to take the shock loading would that work ?? just thinking we clip on with a normal lanyard on scaffold anyway. so would'nt the shock load be the same on a scaffold rto cause this " chinky " ?

cheers mate..
 
cala said:
Thanks Alan, much apprteciated mate..

---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

Pick your brains again Alan if i can mate

If I excalibur bolt b and P 6ft centres and use an inertia reel to take the shock loading would that work ?? just thinking we clip on with a normal lanyard on scaffold anyway. so would'nt the shock load be the same on a scaffold rto cause this " chinky " ?

cheers mate..
Click to expand...

cala

if you use the apollo/excaliber fixings with the correct half moon insert the band and plate will be in its correct position (not chinky) so this may help?
has no one got a picture agggghhhhhhh:D
 
jakdan said:
cala

if you use the apollo/excaliber fixings with the correct half moon insert the band and plate will be in its correct position (not chinky) so this may help?
has no one got a picture agggghhhhhhh:D
Click to expand...

Sorry Jackdan
I think this is incorrect the half moon washer is there to form a flat base for the bolt the tube would still run across the Band and therefore not in the load bearing direction
 
cala said:
Thanks Alan, much apprteciated mate..

---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

Pick your brains again Alan if i can mate

If I excalibur bolt b and P 6ft centres and use an inertia reel to take the shock loading would that work ?? just thinking we clip on with a normal lanyard on scaffold anyway. so would'nt the shock load be the same on a scaffold rto cause this " chinky " ?

cheers mate..
Click to expand...

I am unsure if it would work or not to be honest just advising on the correctness of the fitting etc.

I am also of the opinion that the inertial reel will not reduce the applied forces. If used in conjunction with a lanyard it may even multiply the forces.
Sorry not much help

regards
Alan
 
i can't grasp this chinkey that is being talked about. surely if you fix band and plate to the wall as if it was on an imaginary standard at six foot apart lets say four of them, then run a 21' tube in as a ledger, clip on to that tube, then this is how the fitting would be used in a normal scaffold. as long the fixing used for the tie, apollo/excalibur/hilti was up to the job then that would be ok.
 
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thats what I was thinking.. but wait...... fuckin.g steel fixers have been today and they want a full length platform underslung from the crane.... lot more work, but at least I don't have to worry about the twatt.ing running line..lol.. thanks lads anyway.. top blokes ( apart from ***** who keep posting about the 1,000 post thing lol )
 
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