COTs

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southernpoofter

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Start of rant:mad:
I've just opened a letter from the citb informing us of the new mandatory course.....i wonder whos fvcking stupid brain child & another nail in our coffins idea this is. I orginally thought it was only aimed at new labours but no it includes exhisting labs & trainees when they renew their cards & has got to be the biggest pisss take & threat to us since the eitb sarga.
Where as b4 if you wanted a new labourer/trainees you could advertise take em on as long as they had their cisrs h&s touchscreen test happy days & away you went. No longer- an approved provider will now charge a min of £99 to provide a 8hr course on all the common sense stuff that the guy would normally pick up in his 1st morning in the yard. So add his days wages & travelling expenses on top of this & as as an employer is being asked to pay a few hundred quid out b4 the guy has even started work- & of course if he decideds to start after being board stupid for a day.
And at the other end of the scale someone who has been labouring for several years or a trainnie will now also be expected to do the same- wot a load of ********. So whos gonna want to take on potential labours now. No-one thats who.
No other trade within the building industry as far as im aware are expected to do this so why us....cos we're mugs to an obvious cash cow. I'm all for H&S but this is taking the pisss.
If the citb/cisrs want to impose this then they should fvuking well pay for it, @least by doing it for free may bring new blood into the game.
End of rant:mad:
 
Good post sp.
My mates firm and us are looking for labs, we both know good kids that we think would make good scaffs but none of us are willing to pay out all that expence if they decide after a month or two its not the job for them. Its just another fecking money spinner to bleed out of us.
Whos fecking decision was it to introduce this eh....nasc again by anychance.
 
southernpoofter said:
Start of rant:mad:
I've just opened a letter from the citb informing us of the new mandatory course.....i wonder whos fvcking stupid brain child & another nail in our coffins idea this is. I orginally thought it was only aimed at new labours but no it includes exhisting labs & trainees when they renew their cards & has got to be the biggest pisss take & threat to us since the eitb sarga.
Where as b4 if you wanted a new labourer/trainees you could advertise take em on as long as they had their cisrs h&s touchscreen test happy days & away you went. No longer- an approved provider will now charge a min of £99 to provide a 8hr course on all the common sense stuff that the guy would normally pick up in his 1st morning in the yard. So add his days wages & travelling expenses on top of this & as as an employer is being asked to pay a few hundred quid out b4 the guy has even started work- & of course if he decideds to start after being board stupid for a day.
And at the other end of the scale someone who has been labouring for several years or a trainnie will now also be expected to do the same- wot a load of ********. So whos gonna want to take on potential labours now. No-one thats who.
No other trade within the building industry as far as im aware are expected to do this so why us....cos we're mugs to an obvious cash cow. I'm all for H&S but this is taking the pisss.
If the citb/cisrs want to impose this then they should fvuking well pay for it, @least by doing it for free may bring new blood into the game.
End of rant:mad:
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cisrs is run along side of cscs what we need ta de is find out if anoyt other cscs opratives have to get there labs trainees have to site a similar course as well as goign to collage and alreayd hvaign a trainee card??????
 
I agree big waste of time!!!

The training side of scaffolding is a joke.

Should be based on experience through the companies not rip offs through over night set up training centers.

I have put a lad on the apprenticeship scheme CITB tell me one thing & CISRS tell me another in regards CSCS & COTS!

Waiting for the local training rep to come to the office, tried for two weeks now to sort that out!!

Apprentices do their CSCS touch screen test on the course so I am told, yet to allow him on site he needs to do it. So I will have to pay it, then he cannot get a card that will allow him on site unless he does the COTS which is covered again by the apprenticeship. Again I have to pay for it!!!

Left hand wanting more money than the right & not knowing which pocket to put it in!!!

Ragscaff
 
Its draconian middle england b#llshit mate.....britains full of middle class or wannabee middle class d1ckheads who have jobs made from nothing that are parasitic on hard working people, they have to find new ways to justify there existence and pay packets.....no other country in the world has anything like the weak culture we have.....time to treat it with the contempt it deserves and ignore it !:mad:
 
The scaffolding industry will soon be on its knees, we supposed to be bringing the next generation of scaffs throu at this time, but with all these new cards, qualis there having to do its making it ni on impossible to invest in the future of scaffs.
 
Iv Been Saying This About This Course For Weeks Gents, Trust Me On This The Qualified Scaffolders Will Be Next, My Card Is Up For Renewal Next Year So We Will Wait And See What Happens There, Also The Assessed Route On Your Card Is No Longer Proof Of Training, So If A Scaffolder Has To Renew His Card And He Was The Assessed Route His Card Will Not Be Renewed, This Really Has Gone Beyond The Pale And Cisrs Has Become Just What Everyone Said It Would A Really Good Earner For A Certain Few.
 
The games doomed!!!!! You wouldnt mind if you were on £180 £190 a shift but its £120 £130 its had it and wont get any beter theres to much money involved for the coffers {COT}carry on takeing
 
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When the idea was first mooted by CISRS, I agreed with it in principal as the suggestion was it could be carried out in house to an agreed syllabus. Yes, much of the syllabus would be what would be included in an induction and the first day on the job, but at least it meant every new labourer would get a minimum level of training. When it came into force, the bar for in house training was set too high, requiring the training to be carried out by a formally qualified trainer - alright for the nationals maybe, but not many others.

Could be worse though - CSCS are planning to introduce a 5 day course to get the general site operatives card.....
 
Mark about time you and keers'y

got your website updated

looks like you have do nothing for last couple of years
 
Apply for the training pack and just replace it with your current induction pack.
 
Gerscaff said:
Iv Been Saying This About This Course For Weeks Gents, Trust Me On This The Qualified Scaffolders Will Be Next, My Card Is Up For Renewal Next Year So We Will Wait And See What Happens There, Also The Assessed Route On Your Card Is No Longer Proof Of Training, So If A Scaffolder Has To Renew His Card And He Was The Assessed Route His Card Will Not Be Renewed, This Really Has Gone Beyond The Pale And Cisrs Has Become Just What Everyone Said It Would A Really Good Earner For A Certain Few.
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hope this don't happen gerscaff and they let this one go under the carpet!!! the ecitb ticket was basically the same!!!the latter one based on experience and the new cisrs one based on training I no some{ are} tickets have nvq on and the earlier ones have no nvq on there the ones that will have the problem!! myself and thosands that had ecitb had to go back made me a very bitter olde man when you go to the training centre its full of young kids that no nothing. it was so unfair. hope they let this one go as there get emails everyday I was told by a nasc committee member there wasn't a day go passed were he didn't get a ecitb scaffolder email so I think this may go under the carpet depens how many there are wether it will generate enough money to be bothered with it good luck anyway mate
 
For all europe seems to fuk us over on regs....surely theres some kind of right to work law that covers experience. ....if say thirty years of your working life counts for fuk all I can only see that being a british thing....europeans wouldnt allow that to happen and im sure they will have it in a law which supercedes ours :huh:
 
I live down by the channel rail link the French fishermen just bloke the port at france it causes road jams on the m20 for miles but they always get there way we should be more like them!! the only time I think this country held the government to ransom was the petrol strike by the haulage companys that did make people sit up and listen
 
They want us to be like gas engineers and electricians which have to pay for a test every five years that will keep the training schools going.but we won't earn the same money
 
I agree with all the points raised here.Likes of Simian Risk,Clarke Safety ect.Making a fortune of the backs of the people they should be helping.Card for this course for that when will it end?Simple answer,never.As long as the NASC and the HSE are working together lining each others pockets.Time was when firms paid for training,not many do now.Just heard that Atlantic(wankkers) got a £200,000 grant for training and starting more men..WHAT DID THEY DO? Laid a load off.One lad I know his part one had run out.Couldn't afford to go on his part two course so they binned him.These gobshites are in the NASC.I know I have gone on about them a lot but they are a fukkin disgrace.Cash in hand,no ppe,no training,let labs erect.Lay men off mid week.All the conditions to be in the NASC they ignore but they are still in it.
 
This is a major issue we have been aware of for a while, first ECITB, next was Assessed route of entry but the SCCR put a hold on that , now they have come up with COTS! It will not stop, Scaffolding would have survived with national colleges only. Did not need all these private training centres, but now they need to keep them busy!!

NASC & CISRS have no interest in the Industry as a whole & the CITB have no money to change it!!!!

The only way forward is to join the SA & make a change.

Ragscaff
 
I think this was pushed by the UKCG to make sure anyone on site had a minimum level of knowledge and understanding of risk. I have done nothing about it yet but I do know you can do this in house and is probably our preferred way of dealing with it.
 
Never a truer statement Stewart.

"Did not need all these private training centres, but now they need to keep them busy!!"
 
aom said:
I think this was pushed by the UKCG to make sure anyone on site had a minimum level of knowledge and understanding of risk. I have done nothing about it yet but I do know you can do this in house and is probably our preferred way of dealing with it.
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Think you have to jump through a load of hoops m8..the pack contains criteria that most small to medium sized companies will be unable to meet to allow them to do it in house.lets face it between their touchscreen & intial welcome to the company then site induction 90% of the syllabus is covered with the remainder being common sense. It just infuriates me that this is compulsary- for the time being the smaller tea& biscuit companys will avoid it, but with the medium size companies & their SSO it will hit us straight away.for instance one of my trainees tckt runs out after xmas, so they wont renew it unless he does the cots. Wages,fuel & course fees im not gonna get any change out of £350-400 bit of a pisss take when you concider the renewal would only have been £35ish
 
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