how job has change but wot about management

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scaff29

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awrite lads we r always getting told to do things differently to keep up wi the regs but wot about managers do u think they r moving with the times eg, modern managment were they run there teams like, make the empolyee feel part off company, give there men high 5s when work is being done or boys have done more than expected of them, also jst like ur big corps giving incentives surly better working enviroment for company as a whole
or the stoneage management which is by most the type i have worked for go thru 40ft trailer off gear not good enough,u should have done a 80ft trailer the day, rob the boys at the end of the week supply them with no ppe ,and fukc lads all the time


notice there is a few in management on the forum intresting to see there views and how they like to run the ship and modern vs stoneage
:unsure:
 
You do make some good points scaff but I doubt very much whether you will get anyone in a management position admitting they are still in the stoneage.

I'm not sticking up for management but when you do move into "the office" you do see things in a different light. You are the one that gets it in the ear from a customer if things don't go to plan. You are the one that has to worry about whether a job is making/will make money, where the next job is coming from, preparing risk assessment and method statements, having meetings with customers, chasing money to pay wages etc etc.

Lads will say that the gaffer doesn't give a s**t that they have to hump 5 ton of gear 200 yds in the rain to get the job done, that the site manager they are working for is a knacker, that the trainee they have in their squad is a numpty.

Personally, I think if the lads have done well, you should tell them so. On the other hand, if they have tossed it off and you and them know they have, they should be told so as well.

It is all to easy to point fingers and criticise the other side for being f***ing useless or a bunch of lazy b@stards.
Like the song says, Walk a mile in my shoes ;)
 
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Dass said:
You do make some good points scaff but I doubt very much whether you will get anyone in a management position admitting they are still in the stoneage.

I'm not sticking up for management but when you do move into "the office" you do see things in a different light. You are the one that gets it in the ear from a customer if things don't go to plan. You are the one that has to worry about whether a job is making/will make money, where the next job is coming from, preparing risk assessment and method statements, having meetings with customers, chasing money to pay wages etc etc.

Could not agree more Dass, the above points are very much to the fore in todays market place, chasing money is the hardest game in the world in this climate no one wants to part with it, we were promised around 15k on the
10th of this month by one particular client now overnight it has been moved to the 20th dont they realise we have men to pay, men who have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if these men dont get what is owing to them its the management team that get the blame [robing ba5tards and twisted Fxxckers are words that spring to mind] i have before now paid money out of my own pocket to the lads as it is not their fault any of this sh1te happens
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dass nice feed back,teeside that was class tune ma mum liked elvis but never had the pleasure of hearing that bro,general feel for u bro no 1 likes getting mess about
 
a good manager should not get stressed over budgets or anything else, but the problem is that good managers are hard to come across because firstly they get the job because they are a mate of a mate or the best fighter/ bully, secondly they have good sucking lips .So really a good manager should come from a scaffolding background who is prepared to treat everbody the same and has some intelligence,
 
earl_chantry said:
a good manager should not get stressed over budgets or anything else, but the problem is that good managers are hard to come across because firstly they get the job because they are a mate of a mate or the best fighter/ bully, secondly they have good sucking lips .So really a good manager should come from a scaffolding background who is prepared to treat everbody the same and has some intelligence,
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What a load of fxxking crap, managers get stressed over a number of things the main one is the wellbeing of your staff, if they have a problem a good manager acts like an agony aunt and tries to talk them through their problems, as far as getting the job i have over 40 years experience in the game and worked my way up [by my own bootlaces no favours given] from a labourer/apprentice to the dizzy height of director, granted i have had my stripes removed a few times for silly things but im still here and like myself there will be a lot of other non ar5e licking managers on here who take great offence to your snide remarks
 
general its good to see sumone go for yard/aprrentice 2 scaff,all the way to the dizzy heights of management well done bro, so how do think management has change if any gm quite a good post eh
 
Earl,
I don't know your background or what you do for a living but I do think you're wrong when you say "a good manager should not get stressed over budgets or anything else"

If you worked for me and it came to pay day and I told you that there was no money in the bank because I hadn't chased cheques because I don't get stressed or bothered by that sort of thing, I think you might have a few choice words for me.

At the same time, if I had to lay you off due to lack of work you'd be a bit annoyed. If I told you it was because I didn't stress about chasing work or making sure there was enough gear in the yard to do it, again you'd be more than a little bit p1ssed.
 
you know what they say if its too hot you get outta the kitchen. If there is no money for budgets the buck stops with the manager, if things are not going well it stops with the managers. thats what a manager is employed for and this is my point.A good manager will not let this happen in the first place and if he does hes not doing his job .I am not saying all managers are bad i have worked for some first class managers who have attained their jobs on merit.Just because a manager has been a great price work and first class scaffolder it doesnt automatically make him or her the best manager.
 
I agree very much with what Dass says.

Im one of the worst, when it comes to giving Managers a hard time... most of the time i feel that im justified, as i have worked for some right proper thick, useless slimy c.unts... but i dont evny some of the jobs they have to do.

Im a right moaning f.ucker and usually like to blame the blokes in the office for everything wrong. :D
Im very much a Scaffolders, Scaff... which is more then likely why i dont get on, lol.

  • Scaffolders not coming in: Supervisor has to ring the Client and munch on a big slice of humble pie.
  • Scaffolders break something: Supervisor has to again phone about and get a load of grief.
  • Scaffolders getting knocked/sacked/being a general pain in the arse: Supervisor gets the shiit end of the stick.

BUT!

Theres probably a good few really honest, truthful and decent Supervisors out there, more then that likely - much more, but unfortunately there are the 'so-called' Supervisors who are total scum-bags, who seem to enjoy sacking people and making life hard for their ex-fellow Scaffolders, that give the others a bad name. Like a few shiity Scaffolders that make the rest of us 'normal' ones look bad.


Never being in any kind of office based management, i wouldn't know what it was like 20 years ago or even now, but id take a guess that if things have changed massively with regulations and stuff for us on site, then id bet that its also had an impact on life in the office as-well.

I can imagine a Supervisor being bogged down with pages and pages of silly paperwork day in day out, all in the name of 'apparent' Health and Safety, that i also dont envy them form having to do. :wondering:
 
earl_chantry said:
you know what they say if its too hot you get outta the kitchen. If there is no money for budgets the buck stops with the manager, if things are not going well it stops with the managers. thats what a manager is employed for and this is my point.A good manager will not let this happen in the first place and if he does hes not doing his job .
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Earl, you're entitled to your opinion but I have to suggest you're talking complete and utter bollox.

If I price a job and we haven't got much work on, then I'll probably go in keener to get it. Therefore there'll be less money in the job for the company and we will have to watch the pennies. If I am working for someone like SGB (as was) then my budgets will be set for me by are managers and directors.
I might even take the job on just to keep the lads busy. We're not all cuunts who would rather lay lads off because it's easier than looking for more work.


A "good manager" hasn't got any say whether this happens or not. You're completely wrong to imply that if a manager is restricted in some way during the lean times we are having, it's the managers fault for letting it happen, therefore he can't be a good manager. Let me remind you that every morning when the manager sends you out to do a job he puts his balls on the line. If the lads have an accident, prang a car in the wagon, give the customer abuse, break a window, give a traffic warden abuse then it will nearly always come back to the manager.

Like I said in my earlier post, I don't know what you do for a living earl but it looks like you've never had the responsibility for running a depot or a company day to day over a period of time.
Until you're getting a daily dose of having your @rse chewed by area managers/directors, scaffs, clients, H&S men, site managers, yard staff and a queue of other people, working probably longer hours than your men and sometimes earning less than them, then you might want to allow yourself to think before letting your fingers loose on a keyboard.
 
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jason the thread is not about good or bad managers but modern management we have evolved but have they thats the question
:noworry:
 
I think they have mate.
They must have had to, to keep up with how much we have had to, also.

As well as adhere to the Rules and Regulations that are everywhere now, where we work, they also have to try to enforce them on us.
 
Rules and regs come through the office first,then filter down to the lads,not the other way round.:cool:
 
scaff29 said:
jason the thread is not about good or bad managers but modern management we have evolved but have they thats the question
:noworry:
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Morning Scaff29
The reason Scaffs have evolved is because "Management" have facilitated it, the old saying "sh1t rolls down hill" holds strong, advancement is is not made at site level it is made in at management level and passed to site.
regards
Alan

---------- Post added at 04:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 AM ----------
Dass said:
Earl, you're entitled to your opinion but I have to suggest you're talking complete and utter bollox.

If I price a job and we haven't got much work on, then I'll probably go in keener to get it. Therefore there'll be less money in the job for the company and we will have to watch the pennies. If I am working for someone like SGB (as was) then my budgets will be set for me by are managers and directors.
I might even take the job on just to keep the lads busy. We're not all cuunts who would rather lay lads off because it's easier than looking for more work.


A "good manager" hasn't got any say whether this happens or not. You're completely wrong to imply that if a manager is restricted in some way during the lean times we are having, it's the managers fault for letting it happen, therefore he can't be a good manager. Let me remind you that every morning when the manager sends you out to do a job he puts his balls on the line. If the lads have an accident, prang a car in the wagon, give the customer abuse, break a window, give a traffic warden abuse then it will nearly always come back to the manager.

Like I said in my earlier post, I don't know what you do for a living earl but it looks like you've never had the responsibility for running a depot or a company day to day over a period of time.
Until you're getting a daily dose of having your @rse chewed by area managers/directors, scaffs, clients, H&S men, site managers, yard staff and a queue of other people, working probably longer hours than your men and sometimes earning less than them, then you might want to allow yourself to think before letting your fingers loose on a keyboard.
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Morning Dass
some comments on this thread are not worthy of comment; yours I am glad to say are.
All of what you have said above is an accurate portrayal of management life.
That said I would add the following to compliment you appraisal:
We currently have 200 scaffolders at various levels employed. We as a company have struggled to keep them employed for the last couple of lean years. Not only have we continued to pay them on time but we have continued to pay them over time and give them as many hours as possible.
During these times strenuous and stress filled times our market rate has been slashed and our market share cut. Steel prices have risen, fuel prices have risen, business rates and costs have risen, vehicle servicing and running costs have risen. We are battered by new safety requirements on a Dailey basis the costs of which we as a company accept but cannot recoup. All the rises in cost are levied against the company and they are accepted, all the loss of revenue has been inflicted upon the company that too is accepted. None of my management team from Supervisor to Director has asked for nor have they received either incremental increases or bonuses for over three years. In contrast every outworker from top hand to Joey, every yard man and driver has received an increment and many have advised me that it is inadequate. ALL of my management team are long term “scaffolding people” not under grad’s from uni. so they all understand the business from the ground up.
These are very hard times and when people make stupid immature comments like “if it’s too hot get out of the kitchen”, well, they just show a lack of thought and experience. Ask yourself the question who is going to feed you in particular when the management have all left the kitchen?
Merry Christmas
Alan
 
scaff29 said:
general its good to see sumone go for yard/aprrentice 2 scaff,all the way to the dizzy heights of management well done bro, so how do think management has change if any gm quite a good post eh
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A lot of management these days have been fast tracked through universities and colleges and know nothing about the industry, as i have stated on a previous thread SGB as it was then brought in a university bod who had a degree in horticulture, yes fxxking horticulture and he was on a quick route up to directorship level, this idiot did not know the difference between a base plate & a band and plate, when they asked me to take him under my wing and show him how it all worked i decided to up sticks and seek further employment elsewhere
 
earl_chantry said:
you know what they say if its too hot you get outta the kitchen. If there is no money for budgets the buck stops with the manager, if things are not going well it stops with the managers. thats what a manager is employed for and this is my point.A good manager will not let this happen in the first place and if he does hes not doing his job .I am not saying all managers are bad i have worked for some first class managers who have attained their jobs on merit.Just because a manager has been a great price work and first class scaffolder it doesnt automatically make him or her the best manager.
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it has to be said that you are a shining example of why decent managers should not stress about employees.

over the years i started as a labourer and ended up as a Director of a medium sized multi discipline company and now project manager on a site abroad with about 1000 men of many disciplines below me. I can assure you that stress is part of the job in management. How each individual deals with stress is the key differential between everyone.
i have always personally and always insisted my managers and supervisors treat the men fairly. And always made myself available to the men to sort out any issues.

i must admit there are times when i revert back to the old ways of dealing with men, but this is governed by the situation.( the good old ways are not ripping anyone off financially taking short cuts and shirking on ppe or safety that is being a cowboy)
If i am dealing with 30 scaffs on a site that are working there tickets what am i gonna do high 5 them as some might suggest or dig my heels in and hard nose it.
you can teach an old dog new tricks but the old dog still knows how to bite.

but always be 100% fair and reasonable
 
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