6 board scaffold
- Thread starter Daryldavies
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Stella Fella
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Iv been doing morrisons stores around the country.they require differant jobs all the time but I was asked to do job 4m x 1lift.job was over a fire escape so I made it 6 boards wide.happy days took 45mins .job was tidy all safe.so we traveled 2.5hours to get back to cardiff.had phone call of site manager.when he was on the phone it sounded like the whole world is ending or some one has died."idiot" .he made me travel all the way back there to change it as it wasn't to tg20. I'm pretty good with safety.but I didn't no that a 6 board scaffold wasn't allowed.iv tried looking for information on this all I can find is scaffolds being 4+2 or 5+1.i can't actually find information saying I can't do 6 board scaffold.if anyone has any info from simian or from nasc or any other safety companies can u post it for me.thanks
1more thing I don't understand why they allow a 1.5m loading bay to be 6 boards wide but not independent
Any info much appreciated
Cheers
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Google- Code of practice for access and working scaffolds (H&SA) Pages 73-88-98-99 worth looking at for 6 board info.
Unfortunately NASC have whipped the rug out from under your feet.
Under BS5973 you could build scaffolds up to 50m high with 6 boards without a design provided that the bay length was 1.8m or less. In fact it allowed up to 8 boards wide.
TG20 says explicitly that if you have a scaffold wider than 5 boards 'a special design is required' - see Operational Guide section 6.4.
Compliance sheets are only good for scaffolds up to 5 boards wide so you can't build 'independent scaffolds' like yours without a special design.
You can build interior birdcages to carry general building loads (2.0 kN/m2) with widths up to 7 boards and lengths up to 1.7m but you're outside here so you can't call it an interior birdcage - OG section 12.3.
Loading bays can only be 5 boards wide without a special design so you can't call it a loading bay - OG section 12.3.
A two paragraph design for the transoms and ledgers would show that what you had built was safe. That is within the capability of any site engineer - it drives me mad that most contractors don't employ experienced people to do it and that those who do won't allow them to do it. What would your site manager have done with the design if he had it - probably wouldn't understand it, possibly pass it on to someone else to check and criticise and then end up filing it after the scaffold was struck before it had been agreed!!!! Of course, he would then have an excuse for not paying you wouldn't he?
Grumpy Old Engineer.
Under BS5973 you could build scaffolds up to 50m high with 6 boards without a design provided that the bay length was 1.8m or less. In fact it allowed up to 8 boards wide.
TG20 says explicitly that if you have a scaffold wider than 5 boards 'a special design is required' - see Operational Guide section 6.4.
Compliance sheets are only good for scaffolds up to 5 boards wide so you can't build 'independent scaffolds' like yours without a special design.
You can build interior birdcages to carry general building loads (2.0 kN/m2) with widths up to 7 boards and lengths up to 1.7m but you're outside here so you can't call it an interior birdcage - OG section 12.3.
Loading bays can only be 5 boards wide without a special design so you can't call it a loading bay - OG section 12.3.
A two paragraph design for the transoms and ledgers would show that what you had built was safe. That is within the capability of any site engineer - it drives me mad that most contractors don't employ experienced people to do it and that those who do won't allow them to do it. What would your site manager have done with the design if he had it - probably wouldn't understand it, possibly pass it on to someone else to check and criticise and then end up filing it after the scaffold was struck before it had been agreed!!!! Of course, he would then have an excuse for not paying you wouldn't he?
Grumpy Old Engineer.
Daryldavies
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Thanks mate thats what iv been looking for I'll get drawing done for 6 board scaffold follow the spec then change length to suit.
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---------- Post added at 10:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
only thing is that was in 2008.nice one
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derryscaff
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Gone are the good old days when the scaffolder turned up with lorry load of gear designed it, built it and took pride in it and took great offence if anybody criticised it. Nowadays if you step out of the box too make a job better you are the worst in the world
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Just for your info Gents,
Pavement Lift
TG20, Chapter 03 States;
The pavement lift must be erected and maintained in accordnce with the requirmwnts of the Local Highway Authority under an appropriate street or pavement closure licence. Further information can be foune in SG 34: Guidence on the protection of the public.
Criteria
* Suitable for TG 20 compliant tied independent scaffolding;
* Maximum 2.7m pavement lift height;
* Minimun 2.44m clear headroom;
* Five boards wide plus up to two inside boards;
* Ledger bracing omitted below first lift;
* First lift to be close-boarded or double-boarded with an intermediate waterproof membrane.
Platform widths,
TG 20, Section 6.4, Paragraph 6.
The platforms of a TG 20 compliant independent scaffolding are 3-5 boards wide, with up to 2 inside boards placed between the inner standards and the building.
On paper he was right, in reality we have all done it. As it has been said earlier in the post a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
If your scaffold is indeed erected in a main fire escape route. Is it not down to the client to re-route with the secondary escape route, until work is completed. Not directly blcoking/closing the escape route but making the secondary a primary?
Pavement Lift
TG20, Chapter 03 States;
The pavement lift must be erected and maintained in accordnce with the requirmwnts of the Local Highway Authority under an appropriate street or pavement closure licence. Further information can be foune in SG 34: Guidence on the protection of the public.
Criteria
* Suitable for TG 20 compliant tied independent scaffolding;
* Maximum 2.7m pavement lift height;
* Minimun 2.44m clear headroom;
* Five boards wide plus up to two inside boards;
* Ledger bracing omitted below first lift;
* First lift to be close-boarded or double-boarded with an intermediate waterproof membrane.
Platform widths,
TG 20, Section 6.4, Paragraph 6.
The platforms of a TG 20 compliant independent scaffolding are 3-5 boards wide, with up to 2 inside boards placed between the inner standards and the building.
On paper he was right, in reality we have all done it. As it has been said earlier in the post a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
If your scaffold is indeed erected in a main fire escape route. Is it not down to the client to re-route with the secondary escape route, until work is completed. Not directly blcoking/closing the escape route but making the secondary a primary?
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Daryldavies
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Thank u very much
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Stella Fella
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Yes fella
Technical Guidance on the use of BS EN12811-1
The adoption of an approach different to the TGD's is not prohibited, provided that the approach meets the requirements of the Regulations.
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BS EN12811-1 implies that all scaffold must be designed but it does not have legal status in the way that UK acts of parliament have so you can ignore it if you want to, provided you meet all legal requirements (Work at Height Regulations, Health and Safety at Work Act etc etc).
BUT
Most major clients and contractors lay down that scaffolds are in accordance with either the BSEN or TG20 and if you ask insurers they will probably come out with the same answer. Domestic clients and small builders don't care but their insurers will care.
That can leave you in a difficult place if you choose to ignore the recommendations in Standards, TG20 and other technical guides. If we go down the route of doing design to BSEN, the industry will grind to a halt because it probably takes longer to design a scaffold to that than it takes to built it.
(One other thing - you can't use ledger bracing on working lifts in a BSEN scaffold so you probably wouldn't like the end result anyway)
With its failings, TG20 is the best thing we have right now so if you want to get more practical solutions in cases like the one we have here, you have to get NASC to change it.
TG6, Would it be right in saying, We follow TG20 which is a guidence and not Law, yet if you do not follow the guidence when/once completed erecting and an accident occurs, then you can get prossicuted?
Tony Mason
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Its my understanding that the regs we work to our "best practice" and not law.
smark150
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And there's the problem so many boys out in the field are still not sure what the regs are concerning the industry , mainly because the information is not making it to the people it was meant for , scaffolders not site agent and design engineers who have never turned a spanner in their life , a big failing by NASC and that's because they are a profit making company so this information is not free like it should
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It is beat practice indeed Tony, but how can they prosecute if, (as smark) says, if people believe they are erecting to "best practice" if as rightly they are not being trained. Plus also I would like to understand how you can from a guidence not a scaffold law.
Or am I just Tick???????
smark150
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HSE produce a code of practice which is available its not law but if you alter from that and something goes wrong in a court of law you will have to prove what you did was reasonably practical and a better choice than the C.O.P its called burden of proof
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As people have stated above TG20:13 is guidance only but the Work at Height Regs state that;
"7. Strength and stability calculations for scaffolding shall be carried out unless—
(a) a note of the calculations, covering the structural arrangements contemplated, is avor
(b) it is assembled in conformity with a generally recognised standard configuration."
This effectively means that you either need to get a design or calculations (a) or construct it to TG20 (b). If you don't do either of these then you would need to explain to the judge why you didn't if anything happened. That said, a 6 board wide scaffold has less loading on the ledger than a 5+2 scaffold so it is OK to build, you would just need some calculations from an engineer to prove this; might be worthwhile if you're building a lot of them. We have calculations for up to 10 board wide independents using Tube & Fittings.
"7. Strength and stability calculations for scaffolding shall be carried out unless—
(a) a note of the calculations, covering the structural arrangements contemplated, is avor
(b) it is assembled in conformity with a generally recognised standard configuration."
This effectively means that you either need to get a design or calculations (a) or construct it to TG20 (b). If you don't do either of these then you would need to explain to the judge why you didn't if anything happened. That said, a 6 board wide scaffold has less loading on the ledger than a 5+2 scaffold so it is OK to build, you would just need some calculations from an engineer to prove this; might be worthwhile if you're building a lot of them. We have calculations for up to 10 board wide independents using Tube & Fittings.