what does simian think

ragscaff said:
simian said:
Ian,

Does the CSCS stay is it just the company that you e-mail to try & get the test booked that is changing? Did not know that.

Are the CITB going to run it themselves?

Stewart
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I'm working off my phone at the moment but the people who do it now won't be doing it in the future as we are a test centre and I got an email about two weeks ago. It's not till next April as far as I know. But to cut to the chase cscs is done at bircham where all the cards come from and They just contract someone out to run the tests.
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Are Prometric are the mob who do the actual test?
 
So they do Paddy, I should have known that, I promised one of the boys who used to work with us that if he passed that thing I would pay for lessons to get his licence, he failed it 9 times rapid when I asked him half way through why he said it was the signs with the sun on them. Eventually found out it was flashing warning lights on motorway signs, what chance did he have.:eek:
 
You apply to prometric and they audit you, then you pay cskills for all your tests and licence
 
After 3 pages I'm just getting it now, are we coming to you now Ian for the test?

Well done if it's not too previous, nice to see someone getting on with it.
 
Nothing to do with us this testing as you lose money on every one, it's 17.50 a test and the cost is 17.50 you have to pay, we nearly got expelled because we wanted to put a 2.50 admin charge on
 
What, no wonder they want to sub it out. What's the deal then there must be another carrot for someone to do it or am I missing the entire point of this thread?
 
simian said:
Dico,

I only normally get involved when someone asks me a question because i have been out of the country recently working.

With regards to the new regulations the last real one was for the Work at Height Regs 2005 six and a half years ago, the new guidance is TG20:08 and soon to be TG20:13 as it is being revised to incorporate the new European wind code BS EN 1991. This is Europe who change things and we have a commitment as part of Europe to endorse it. I think this may have been the Labour government years ago taking us in to closer ties with their laws and guidance.

BSEN 12811 came out in 2003 and BS5973 had to be withdrawn because it conflicted with a European Standard, no testing to destruction ever took place for BS5973 and we have a book in our office from 1947 more or less showing the same leg spacings and tie patterns now shown in TG20 after testing so not a lot has changed only the names of documents. I can understand things have gone really fast over the past 6 years but the work at height has dictated it.

With regards to SG4:10 there is little change from SG4:05 apart from some new products and systems of work, the HSE dictated collective protection over personal and there was a lot of discussion in the scaffolding industry whether to adopt this and move away from harnesses being the number one choice clipping on but the Work at Height law is the law and all companies have to comply NASC or not.

Next Inspection of scaffold is simple ring or ask any HSE inspector and he will say competent to build it and you are competent to inspect it. Yes there are courses out there and whilst they are there clients will request their scaffs undertake them. Look at one of the biggest players in the industry and they do their own 3 day inspection course with their own instructors and it does not comply with CISRS but some of the biggest blue chip companies in the world accept it. If you do the CISRS course it will last for five years like the scaffold card.

With regards to training: If training was so bad and nobody learned anything then why isnt scaffolding falling down every day and why are scaffolders not dying every week. The facts from the NASC who are the only ones who measure this and suspend members who dont send in the info states a 78% reduction in falls in 10 years, its hard to say i'm not going to adopt new practices on this evidence. Training is too cheap and the CITB as a government funded operation keep the prices low, all centres are struggling and if there was no European money at least half of them would have closed by now.

For a comparison you do a Nebosh course in a classroom over 10 days £2500, 10 days scaffolding in a 10,000ft square warehouse with a classroom with material needed £800-£850. Does not sound dear now does it.

I used to have an ECITB card as you know and an EITB card prior to that but when i went offshore it was CITB/CISRS or nothing hence i had to change itand complete all the training, there are good and bad scaffs on both sides of the cards and there always will be.

Let me go back to the law, Work at Height regulations state training in the system you are working with, i.e. layher, tube and fitting, cuplok, kwikstage etc etc. The law is the law and its written by Europe and the HSC.

I always see scaffolding like driving, once you have passed your test you start to learn.

What could we teach an experienced ECITB scaff will depend on where he has worked because if he has been house bashing quite a lot, if he has been on major sites with regular toolbox talks and training not as much. What they will get it the up to the date scaffolding information that is coming out of the NASC for guidance.

IF
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house bashing whats that lets be honnest most ecitb scaffolders that i know infact everybody i know are industrial scaffolders sgb capes hertels cnd rainham indusrial services to name a few companys all used ecitb and i believe that some or most are nasc members as for toolbox tools and new regs its rammed down us every day on the power indusry another thing why iam at it why are young lads with there part 2 cisrs quote young lads!! so cocky. lads that you used to take under your wings ignor you now when your
trying to show them a easier way seems they have the cisrs so they no it all now!!!not knocking all lads cause there is some good lads that have learnt the trade properly and started at the bottom but dont put men good men back to a trainee its an insulte ive got a mate thats 55 years olde doing hes part1 october hows been on the curcuit for 30 years with a ecitb jesus there ante nothing you can teach him as for new regs and toolbox talks he teaches them daily but coz it ante got the cisrs after xmas hes fooked think i will find a back street firm get the lorrie fill it with 21s and throw it up as for staggering joints and standards wont worry with the staggering joints and standards no harness pair shorts 90 a day happy days coz the way things are going on the industrial curcuit the moneys going or should say gone and we all no why new regs extra exspences and cut throat prices thats my rant for the week happy mondays:laugh:
 
Stop sugar coating it Dico, what do you really think?:cheesy:
 
aom said:
Stop sugar coating it Dico, what do you really think?:cheesy:
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must be the hormones kicking in aom life begins at 40 bu!!s!it :laugh: for the record there is some very good backstreet firms out there there not all slashers just in case i get a pull on this thread lmfao!!!
 
aom said:
What, no wonder they want to sub it out. What's the deal then there must be another carrot for someone to do it or am I missing the entire point of this thread?
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It dawned on me today that maybe simian were trying to tell us a company from Notts might have/go for the contract. I could be wrong I'm just wondering why he would think I know :D
 
Got to be honest Ian and say I'm totally confused with the whole way this thread went. I know there is an undercurrent but I'm just not getting it.

Anyway, never mind about what anyone else is or isn't doing, just keep an eye on SSS. Are you still going from strength to strength?

I missed the boat at the NCC Scotland who were doing a TG20 thing along side a SG4:10 thing, but we have a guy already there doing his advanced and just wouldn't be worth it if we couldn't all get done at the same time. We still do the toolbox talks and show them the video and all that but I thought it might be a good idea to have a shiny wee card like the rest of them. Are you still doing things like this and are they popular?
 
simian said:
Training is too cheap and the CITB as a government funded operation keep the prices low, all centres are struggling and if there was no European money at least half of them would have closed by now.

For a comparison you do a Nebosh course in a classroom over 10 days £2500, 10 days scaffolding in a 10,000ft square warehouse with a classroom with material needed £800-£850. Does not sound dear now does it.
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I hope it doesn't get more expensive as, from my experience anyway, a lot of younger scaffolders fund their training themselves, especially the more driven ones trying to get on with a decent firm

ragscaff said:
We keep saying we have to follow Europe but when I have worked in France you can still scaffold in your thong if you want.
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Europe seem keen to make rules but we seem to be the only country attempting to rigidly follow them, one of many reasons I'm a major Euro sceptic :rolleyes:
 
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