no win no fee solisitors are bad unless youve had whip lash:embarrest: then your holidays free
Unfair Dismissal
- Thread starter Rigger
- Start date
no win no fee solisitors are bad unless youve had whip lash:embarrest: then your holidays free
Rigger
Moderator
Superscaff "But surely if your a hardworking man off the street, good at your job, good team worker, good time keeper and dont take the pish.
YOU DONT NEED EMPLOYMENT PROTECTION LAWS"
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Lets take the same example you use above,say the guys worked for a small company for 6years.The owner wants to set his lad on after leaving School at 17.Gaffer has not enough work for both of them,and so fires our guy who is earning £15 per hour married with two kids.
Sets his lad on at £9 per hour.This makes sound business thinking as he can use the savings on wages and NI to put his lad through the "training"
The guy that has been sacked is in the sh*t through no fault of his own,
surely he must have some recourse for compensation for the loss of his lively hood.
YOU DONT NEED EMPLOYMENT PROTECTION LAWS"
_______________________________________
Lets take the same example you use above,say the guys worked for a small company for 6years.The owner wants to set his lad on after leaving School at 17.Gaffer has not enough work for both of them,and so fires our guy who is earning £15 per hour married with two kids.
Sets his lad on at £9 per hour.This makes sound business thinking as he can use the savings on wages and NI to put his lad through the "training"
The guy that has been sacked is in the sh*t through no fault of his own,
surely he must have some recourse for compensation for the loss of his lively hood.
20 years ago Dico??? still go's on now...... Now some companies use the MATRIX system rather than LIFO 'last in first out' which is even corrupter than a certain Scaffolding organisation N***
Don't really matter which way they powder you.... when ur numbers up, your walking the mile..
and if you are in a union you have a chance of a remedy
yeap the good olde matrix system!!! ie !! youve jumped ship for beter dosh and youve broke your time served attendance. the new matrix system counts dont no where it come from but it has the clout!!! you ante pulled your weight or you ante got the trainning you could be gone!! bit like the cisrs scheme:bigsmile:
superscaff75
Well-known member
But thats exactly what i also say rigger.
"there is also too many pish taking tosser,s employing pish taking tosser,s these day,s and employing people because of who they know not what they know, keeping best mates and family on board while letting others go regardless of how good they are.
We do need change but like i said before the good need to be able to protect themselves, and the bad need to be less protected whether employee or employer."
Bad employers need to be proscecuted as much as bad employees need to be sent packing.
Its a tightrope isnt it.
"there is also too many pish taking tosser,s employing pish taking tosser,s these day,s and employing people because of who they know not what they know, keeping best mates and family on board while letting others go regardless of how good they are.
We do need change but like i said before the good need to be able to protect themselves, and the bad need to be less protected whether employee or employer."
Bad employers need to be proscecuted as much as bad employees need to be sent packing.
Its a tightrope isnt it.
poacher turned gamekeeper
Well-known member
I am sure that most SF users agree & are pissed off with daft tribunal cases that dominate the press ie lesbian copper gets £250'000 for hurt fellings and a brave soilder who gets almost decapitated gets peanuts.
If the Cons do make it easier to finish employees and waterdown our tribunal rights you can bet your bottom dollar that 21's £8.50 a hour wage will be top end of the future payscale labour flooded the country with cheap labour now the Con's will drive our employment rights & standard of living down even further.....the big capitalist players will run amok at our expence............................................................................
If the Cons do make it easier to finish employees and waterdown our tribunal rights you can bet your bottom dollar that 21's £8.50 a hour wage will be top end of the future payscale labour flooded the country with cheap labour now the Con's will drive our employment rights & standard of living down even further.....the big capitalist players will run amok at our expence............................................................................
Dass
Well-known member
I agree with a lot of the points already made.
In some case there is too much protection and definitely too much legislation already in place. The thing is, life isn't always fair and good honest men do get screwed over by bad companies and @rsehole supervisors.
In some ways it doesn't matter how much or little protection an employee has, there'll always be w@nkers that abuse the system and run to the no-win no-fee vultures to bang in claims for wrongful dismissal etc.
Most of the time employment tribunals cost the employee nothing but win or lose costs the employer a small fortune in time and legal fees. There has to be a balance.
In some case there is too much protection and definitely too much legislation already in place. The thing is, life isn't always fair and good honest men do get screwed over by bad companies and @rsehole supervisors.
In some ways it doesn't matter how much or little protection an employee has, there'll always be w@nkers that abuse the system and run to the no-win no-fee vultures to bang in claims for wrongful dismissal etc.
Most of the time employment tribunals cost the employee nothing but win or lose costs the employer a small fortune in time and legal fees. There has to be a balance.
Flinty
Moderator
Too many useless pr*cks some how keeping their job. I like the idea that it's easier to get rid of someone who takes 3 sh!ts a day and spends all day on the phone to his 3 girlfriends, but to be honest I doubt it'll change much. These people could be got rid of in the first place but still they swan around.
In this game, it doesn't matter who you are, cards or self employed you could be out of a job tomorrow. But more standard, office type jobs are much more secure and will probably benefit more from this change.
In this game, it doesn't matter who you are, cards or self employed you could be out of a job tomorrow. But more standard, office type jobs are much more secure and will probably benefit more from this change.
paddy carr
Moderator
20 years ago Dico??? still go's on now...... Now some companies use the MATRIX system rather than LIFO 'last in first out' which is even corrupter than a certain Scaffolding organisation N***
Don't really matter which way they powder you.... when ur numbers up, your walking the mile..
and if you are in a union you have a chance of a remedy
The Matrix system was introduced in order to be able to get rid of the 'Deadwood'.
Without coming across as a 'Total' **** as there is still places remaining, what other options would you's prefer ?????????
How many strikes and walkouts would there be, if we introduced the 'Lazy man' law, that is been discussed. FFS welcome to the real world Cameron and co.
J
Jason-Gibbs
Guest
MATRIX System is a load of old shiit.
I had it on the LNG Tanks, on the Isle of Grain, for AllTask in about 2008.
I was told, i had:
- 10/10 for my Attendance and Timekeeping.
- 5/10 for my Scaffolding Knowledge.
- 5/10 for my Scaffolding Ability.
What a total crock of shiit!!!
Me and Essex were putting up hangers all over those tanks, especially tank 2 and we had so-called 'Foreman' Labouring for us, as they were too worried and incompetent to get out and build a Hanger 300ft up.
I even struck a big Cantilever with Eddie Hanson (proper nice bloke) with 5 'Foremen' yet again Labouring on the day my Nan died and i was f.ucking in bits on the way to work... i was in ruins, when i got the phone call, from my Mum, 20 minutes away from work.
We put jobs up all over that site and not 1 thing was out of place, not a tube nor a fitting...
And i was laid off, when all these 'Foreman' - f.ucking useless c.unts got to say and milk another 3 months of about £1200 a week, over Christmas.
Proper piss take.
I wont forget it anytime soon...
Rant over.
paddy carr
Moderator
Jay with all due respect mate, In your opinion, what is the correct way to a 'Fair selection process for Redundancy'.
There is none.........LIFO, was the norm, however, discrimination rights sorted that 'badboy' out. My hierarchy in the Union, have had many a debate regarding the selection for Redundancy, and the outcome was......... 'There is no nice way to choose the Employee, for cessation of Employment, however, the 'Matrix' is the preferred method. This method is now the norm through Industry in the UK.
There is none.........LIFO, was the norm, however, discrimination rights sorted that 'badboy' out. My hierarchy in the Union, have had many a debate regarding the selection for Redundancy, and the outcome was......... 'There is no nice way to choose the Employee, for cessation of Employment, however, the 'Matrix' is the preferred method. This method is now the norm through Industry in the UK.
J
Jason-Gibbs
Guest
It should be:
Keep the decent blokes.
Get rid of the w@nkers.
Its not difficult to see who is pulling their weight and who aint.
Keep the decent blokes.
Get rid of the w@nkers.
Its not difficult to see who is pulling their weight and who aint.
Flinty
Moderator
But it's often
Keep the cheaper, unreliable morons.
Get rid of the ones which graft and dare to ask for a decent pay packet.
poacher turned gamekeeper
Well-known member
First heard about the Matrix in 2007 I was working for Hertel had loads of Hollidays left so I took 3 week off in the December and started the Nebosh General course, got a phone call at dinner time on my first day off a mate saying I had been finished instantly that day using the Matrix & all money due to me would follow.
So I phoned Hertel office and was told I was one & 17 others had been Matrixed and powdered. to cut a long story short we got Unite on the case because Hertel never consulted us or went through the assessment with us individually or collectively and 12 later won 19k at a tribual,
The Matrix system sounds fair in theory but in principle depending on who is assessing you, if the assessor is a friend your ok if a foe your fecked,
How can an unqualified company supervisor assess an employee on 10 disciplines ie attitude, teamwork, job knowledge etc with out any proper assessment training and condem the employee to the rock & roll..
LIFO is the only fair way regardless of the Royal family, deadwood & lazy Cants.......
Only my opinion & experience with the Matrix
So I phoned Hertel office and was told I was one & 17 others had been Matrixed and powdered. to cut a long story short we got Unite on the case because Hertel never consulted us or went through the assessment with us individually or collectively and 12 later won 19k at a tribual,
The Matrix system sounds fair in theory but in principle depending on who is assessing you, if the assessor is a friend your ok if a foe your fecked,
How can an unqualified company supervisor assess an employee on 10 disciplines ie attitude, teamwork, job knowledge etc with out any proper assessment training and condem the employee to the rock & roll..
LIFO is the only fair way regardless of the Royal family, deadwood & lazy Cants.......
Only my opinion & experience with the Matrix
Flinty
Moderator
Any system can be abused, lets face it. As Paddy says there is no nice way about it.
Time for another beer me thinks.....
J
Jason-Gibbs
Guest
I might join you mate...
Got another 5 Bud '66's left in the fridge, lol.
Got another 5 Bud '66's left in the fridge, lol.
paddy carr
Moderator
I agree mate, However.
Irrespective of Matrix or LIFO, Consultation must be adhered to. Most Industrial Tribunials will find in favour of the Employee, if the correct procedure has not been adhered to.
Your employer should always consult you individually. This will normally involve:
•speaking to you directly about why you have been selected
•looking at any alternatives to redundancy
If this doesn't happen, your dismissal for redundancy may be unfair
If your employer is thinking about making 20 or more employees redundant at one establishment within a 90-day period, they should consult with employee representatives. Only employees are included when counting the number of redundancies, not ‘workers’ without employment status.
Who your employer will consult with depends on whether you are represented by a trade union. This process is known as collective consultation
Irrespective of Matrix or LIFO, Consultation must be adhered to. Most Industrial Tribunials will find in favour of the Employee, if the correct procedure has not been adhered to.
Your employer should always consult you individually. This will normally involve:
•speaking to you directly about why you have been selected
•looking at any alternatives to redundancy
If this doesn't happen, your dismissal for redundancy may be unfair
If your employer is thinking about making 20 or more employees redundant at one establishment within a 90-day period, they should consult with employee representatives. Only employees are included when counting the number of redundancies, not ‘workers’ without employment status.
Who your employer will consult with depends on whether you are represented by a trade union. This process is known as collective consultation
Flinty
Moderator
Had a scare earlier when I found none left in the fridge, but it is now restocked with the good old bud'. And judging by Paddys Avater it's starting to have an effect on me.... :amazed:
Paddy your knowledge of employment rules seems never ending, you are one of the forums true fountains of knowledge