Tickets or Experience

Mitchells Scaffolding

Mitchells Scaffolding

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Who else is finding the ease or shall I say short space of time with which a trainee can get their tickets is just too short.

In effect you can go from no knowledge to thinking you know it all (newly qualified part 2) in under 12 months. This then seems to delude these men into thinking their value is greater than there pay packet.
A real scaffolder with a ticket and experience can look at most jobs and know the scaff requirements and needs, not have to be told by others what to load or how best to approach the job. I do know the difference between seeking advice and having to be told what to do. Its great to get your ticket and in my opinion adds value when you can you do the job without having to be instructed.
 
Yes there are too many (how to be a scaffolder in 3 easy lessons) types around who reckon they know the game inside out and can be bloody annoying.

Any experienced scaffolder will say no matter how long you have been at it, you never stop learning.

There is no substitute for experience, that includes ANY trade.
 
i dont class someone who permanently uses system scaffolds as a scaffolder , these guys spend their lives hammering it up for **** companies like sgb,interserve,palmers,turners , try sending one of these squads to build your cantilever drop out a window and down three lifts , they'd be trying to think what it was like at college , i see two types of scaffolder tube and fittin guys who are real scaffolders and deserve to earn good money and system scaffold fools who think that because they can erect a block in a day and a half that they are good scaffolders , the system scaffolds are what is responsible for the value of a scaffolder being almost redundant , anyone can put it up , you dont need skilled people just a couple of big lumps
 
experiance for me but theres nowt to say the trainee may not be a good lad so i dont dismiss unexperianced either.
 
You need your tickets in this day and age
But no substitute for experience
As alot of lads say you learn something new almost every day

Also agree with lad about system lads (I won't says scaffs ! lol)
You could train a chimp to whack that up
 
I personally believe it's down to the individual. There's some out there with years of experience who still dint get it & have no interest in taking new stuff on board & guys who are green as but willing to learn & have a pretty good idea of what's required.
As for tickets: I said on another thread " every one who wants to try should be allowed their trainee card but after that all courses should be pass or fail with no exeptions ". & I'll stick to that.
 
SWIFTY said:
Some have tickets and experience as well.
Click to expand...

Im the same.

I personally count experience above everything, BUT (and its a big but) you can be doing something for 10 years and still do it wrongly... Its not impossible, ive met Scaffolders who do some very very strange things that make no sense.

But in this day and age: Tickets are ALL that matter, due to Health and Safety and Insurance.

Take the job im on, for instance - Its a very basic Independent, but the Main Contractor requires atleast 1 Advanced Scaffolder on site for Insurance purposes... thats why im there, only reason.

Its b.ollocks, but its life.
 
jb78 said:
i dont class someone who permanently uses system scaffolds as a scaffolder , these guys spend their lives hammering it up for **** companies like sgb,interserve,palmers,turners , try sending one of these squads to build your cantilever drop out a window and down three lifts , they'd be trying to think what it was like at college , i see two types of scaffolder tube and fittin guys who are real scaffolders and deserve to earn good money and system scaffold fools who think that because they can erect a block in a day and a half that they are good scaffolders , the system scaffolds are what is responsible for the value of a scaffolder being almost redundant , anyone can put it up , you dont need skilled people just a couple of big lumps
Click to expand...

Very true...
 
I'm not so sure, I reckon it's a different skill but a skill none the less. I have went to see a few jobs and priced it for tube as I thought it would require it only for someone else to come along with system and bang up a tidy enough job. The basics are very basic but there are some intricacies with system.
 
i totally agree about system men but what about access route lorry drivers whose firms pay them to lick butt im a grandfather rights scaff

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------
Karlj711 said:
I personally believe it's down to the individual. There's some out there with years of experience who still dint get it & have no interest in taking new stuff on board & guys who are green as but willing to learn & have a pretty good idea of what's required.
As for tickets: I said on another thread " every one who wants to try should be allowed their trainee card but after that all courses should be pass or fail with no exeptions ". & I'll stick to that.
Click to expand...
pain tells you to give it but whats fear you cant take a crap without clipping on fear is working for gb23 if youve a bill to pay
 
Once Again We Go Down The Im A Tube And Fitting Scaffolder Route, Sorry Boys But System Scaffold Is Here To Stay,Iv Used Tube And Prefer To Use It But System Is Faster, I Have Said Before If You Want A Bonny Job Use Tube If You Want To Make Money Use System, By The Way What Does It Say On Your Card, Same As Mine SCAFFOLDER ,I Always Thought We Were All Scaffolders But It Seems The Scaffold Snobs Are Still Very Much To The Fore.
 
those who know the job can spot potential in an inexperianced guy a mile off in the same way they spot the numptys
for me experiance wins, the job gets done its to the standard and all is well.
the numptys get tested when they are running a gang and cant do a house front.
the boss has been out with gangs and laboured rather than led togive them chance to prove what they can do or show them how little they know.
On occasion he has been suprised cos they have been better than he thought
i know its great when you have the time
the odd reality check does no harm at all levels
and from my end (the end of the phone) i gotta say Experiance wins i dont end up with clients asking questions i cant answer (as a none scaffolder)
confidence is atomatic from the client and the office
 
Gerscaff said:
Once Again We Go Down The Im A Tube And Fitting Scaffolder Route, Sorry Boys But System Scaffold Is Here To Stay,Iv Used Tube And Prefer To Use It But System Is Faster, I Have Said Before If You Want A Bonny Job Use Tube If You Want To Make Money Use System, By The Way What Does It Say On Your Card, Same As Mine SCAFFOLDER ,I Always Thought We Were All Scaffolders But It Seems The Scaffold Snobs Are Still Very Much To The Fore.
Click to expand...

I would agree Gerscaff. One of the worst examples of this is when you here the young guns just repeating back what they hear in the shack from the older ones without forming their own opinion, I really hate that. As I said it's a skill, a different one but the real system boy's would definitely educate us and use where I can only see tube.
 
the point i wanted to make is that with systems , i dont think you need a scaffolder , you need somebody who is strong and has a head for heights , SYSTEM SCAFFOLDS MAKE THE SCAFFOLDERS JOB ALMOST REDUNDANT , ITS JUST SOME GUY PUTTIN UP LEGO , AND THERES PLENTY PEOPLE DOWN IN ENGLAND THAT CAN ERECT A BLOCK WITH TUBING JUST AS FAST AS SCOTTISH WITH SYSTEMS , if you want to use systems now gerscaff youre gonna need a lot more than scaffolder on your card , you'll need kwikstage scaff, cuplok scaff, at £400 a course

---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------

btw i wouldnt say im a scaffolding snob , most of the guys doing systems with the big companies , sgb,interserve,palmers,turners , are putting it up for pennies , i will not work for these companies for **** money , these guys are scaffolding knobs , i just have principles , no money but principles
 
True, we have done the Genlok one and was surprised to admit to actually learning something. It may be because we are not really system specialists or anything but we are not really tube specialists either, we are just scaffs building with what ever we see fit and to be honest the real system guy's will teach non users plenty. Even the TG20 thing has taken the thought process away and whilst tube is not a system it is now more standardised and for Genlok anyway the guidelines allow a bit more input from a scaff.

Not an argument, just another of my opinions and how I see it.
 
i only resent these systems because it gives the power to companies , and leads to low wages , even these big companies break the rules regarding their employees being qualified , that is why interserve invented their 2 day kwikstage course so they dont need to pay for CISRS , they can give someone a job , put them through the 2 day course and pay them pennies , if the employee leaves interserve hes not a real scaffolder , just a kwikstage scaff , a system i do respect is cuplok as it has many different components and you can build almost anything
 
I do sort of agree with Aom
System can be erected poorly and there is a certain technique/procedure to it. I have done some time with it and have was put through the Kwikstage course 2nd half of nineties (which is now worthless)

However my point is/was a 2 day system course on its own does not make you a scaffolder in the true sense of the word
 
Done both plattec/layher & tube & fit. Both have their advantages in specific situations. The plattec course we did was quite an eye opener as to how many components this stuff has & also how much you can do with it, the boilers & absorbers have been done in ratcliffe for some years. If I had to choose one though I would say tube & fitting. :bigsmile:
 
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