The Way Ahead

Bundy

Bundy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Location
Glasgow
Now that the CITB and CSCS have fallen out, what is the best road forward for our trade?
My own thoughts are that we need proper training. I'm getting pretty sick of seeing kids coming through are totally clueless yet hold basic/advanced cards courtesy of the piss poor training on offer. We've all seen the training facilities where 'instructors' basically do next to nothing except hand out paperwork and give out the answers to any test papers. I've seen guys pass their Part 2 and advanced when it's blatantly obvious they are hopeless. This has to stop. We need the training program to be longer and more thorough.
Too many no users pass their 'assessments' by hiding/labouring in a gang who actually know what their doing. We really have to be more strict so the quality improves.

What are your thoughts?
 
Skills test!!

Set skills needed from day to day work prior to training.

Longer time between training levels.

Involve the employer, its too easy at the moment.

Ragscaff
 
When i started i was scaffolding with around 20 lads and not one had a card all were pretty decent though. I didnt go through for any of my cards till around the 7 year mark. The thing is ages ago no one cared about cards you where either a decent lad or not. Everyone is saying how **** some lads are but back in the day there was still **** lads just most people didnt have cards.
 
I take your point Scaffcon. The CSCS idea was good in theory. Any tradesman appearing on site with their card had some form of proof of their competence before starting work. In times gone by it was pot luck if a decent squad/gang turned up what quality of job you got.

The flaw in the CSCS system was that they made the training too easy and basically dished out cards to folk who were either incompetent, or at the very least too inexperienced.
 
Bundy said:
Now that the CITB and CSCS have fallen out, what is the best road forward for our trade?
My own thoughts are that we need proper training. I'm getting pretty sick of seeing kids coming through are totally clueless yet hold basic/advanced cards courtesy of the piss poor training on offer. We've all seen the training facilities where 'instructors' basically do next to nothing except hand out paperwork and give out the answers to any test papers. I've seen guys pass their Part 2 and advanced when it's blatantly obvious they are hopeless. This has to stop. We need the training program to be longer and more thorough.
Too many no users pass their 'assessments' by hiding/labouring in a gang who actually know what their doing. We really have to be more strict so the quality improves.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
i tell you what my thoughts are on it. its a bloody joke through and through my self and others been in the game some 25 30 years with a valid ecitb ticket and who have done our time served and being ignored. unless we sit a fooking cisrs course is a joke. i have no problem with the younge lads wanting to learn the game but as you have stated bundy along with another load of lads. the course is floored not blameing the instructors just the system is it me or do the lads comeing into the game looking younger too much unskilled knowledge has got to be dangerous. must have cisrs no fooking good if you dont know what your doing. respect for the lads that have done there time and no there jobs the rest fook off back too asda and leave it too the scaffolders your doing good men out of work!!!!
 
Hi Bundy, your thoughts on better training are bang on ,like ive stated before when i started scaffolding in 1963 it was two yrs before you even held a spanner never mind have a card ,the cards them days where CEU Union graded and it worked. Regarding paper work on courses even with help vast majority still struggle ,i was for 12 yrs a instructor in the Irish Republic vast majority of scaffs using system scaffold where very good but after working in the job for yrs they where hit with courses, actual erecting good ,bricking it on paperwork,instructor then as a problem do you put good men out of work because they can not read or write or do you help them?
 
Denbo, not being able to read or write is a different problem altogether and I sympathise with anyone in that predicament.
On the theory side of the training, if you have the necessary knowledge, then doing a written exam shouldn't pose too much trouble. Questions on things like standard spacing and check fitting placement should be simple to answer but even that is beyond some who are PASSING these exams with a wee bit of 'help' :blink1: from instructors.
 
During the boom I needed 3 scaffs urgently, I rang an agency, (first & last time) I told them I needed T&F scaffs and they told me no problem, they were all advanced. They arrived and all the tools they had were system hammers and only one could speak a bit of English, They failed the induction cause they could'nt fill out the forms, or understand the video. I would'nt say they could erect T&F either, so I'm wondering how they passed the written test on their course, or how they understood what the instructor was telling them.
 
Here here dico I've been in this game since I was 16yrs old I'm 31 now and still learning I first started in the yard oiling fittings loading wagons ect it was 2yrs befor I got the chance to work in a squad,I worked as a labourer for at least 4yrs before I went for my part one tckt then I decided to take my part two which was April this year and I think that has made me a better scaffolder the training does need to be longer the young scaffold are more interested in who has the biggest guns or who can top a 21 off the highest or there on there phones you can't blame them going for tickets and cards with no experience I would've done the same if I could've of if the make scaffolding a skilled trade we wouldn't have this prob because the training would be more focused and last at least the same amount of time as an apprentership .maybe this will happen in the near future let's hope so it is now or never really.
 
brandy said:
During the boom I needed 3 scaffs urgently, I rang an agency, (first & last time) I told them I needed T&F scaffs and they told me no problem, they were all advanced. They arrived and all the tools they had were system hammers and only one could speak a bit of English, They failed the induction cause they could'nt fill out the forms, or understand the video. I would'nt say they could erect T&F either, so I'm wondering how they passed the written test on their course, or how they understood what the instructor was telling them.
Click to expand...

Therein lies another problem Brandy. How many times have you (or anyone else) been sent out an agency man who's turned out to be a complete fucknugget with hardly a single operating braincell?
Got a couple of guys out on a job I was running to do edge protection. They looked at it, turned to me and said "Sorry pal I don't do tubing" :weird: I explained to them all they were doing was connecting the tubes to beamwork and fitting toeboards, but still the glazed look. Ended up sending them away.
 
Thats The 20,000 Dollar Question Brandy,How The Hell Do Some Of Them Get A Card? Some Of The Scaffolds Ive Seen I Would Be Ashamed To Put My Name To And Thats Just Kwikstage, While A Certain Level Of Skill Is Required Its Not Rocket Science.
 
ok so trainings the problem. Lads that cant answer questions i agree with. I know lads who have absolutely no intentions of learning any of the facts or figures are guidance that would make them and their gang a better more productive team because we wouldnt have to keep going back putting their **** right.

So young lads start at the bottom. why blame all the training centres, why doesnt the firm take it on its shoulders to get the lads up to speed on ACOPs and RAMS and all the current legislation? Ive never yet worked for a boss who has told me or passed me any information. They leave it to thetraining centres then slag them off.

Why not give the young lads the start they need?
 
Not blaming the training centres solely but it's the obvious place to start as this is where a fair slice of the youngsters are introduced to the practical side of the game.
Most companies use these kids as free labour but with a little bit of guidance/patience they could become a good investment.

Don't know about elsewhere but the apprenticeship scheme in Scotland has the youngsters trained to Advanced level (I know :suspicious:) by year three. Way, way too soon. I reckon it should be three years for a Trainee card, five years for a Basic card, with the Advanced card being an optional add-on.
 
in some ways i agree, but some lads come through quicker than others. So youre making someone hang back for 8 years from being advanced even though he could be a more capable scaffolder than half the lads hes working with, who will be whingin if he gets anywhere near the same money as them.

I know a lad who could put jobs up have a third party inspect them hardly ever get anything pulled. He was quick and was a trainee. He could run 20 lads on a site and kept his boss, managing director and site managers happy cos he was doing the supervisors job and organising everything else.

Should he have been made to hang back for 8 years? There were advanced lads who have been at it longer than him asking how they should do their jobs so they wont get pulled.

Each to their own in my opinion. If theyre good enough then its upto the firms to bring them through to be the scaffs they want. Besides you dont start learning till you run your own gang cos you just let someone else take the lead.

Just how i see it.
 
Perhaps the way ahead is to formulate our own Training Regime---cant be any worse than the one we have---thought's ?...
 
this has been mooted before would love to see a viable alternative to the current system garry so in my view your idea carries much merit.
 
I think to do this you would need someone in the know on your side, everyone agrees the training is not upto scratch but will they be willing to pay the extra money for longer courses?

To give them the experience you would need to assess more which would cost more money?

Garry i agree with alot that you say and you seem to have a very sensible head on your shoulders, you would know alot more about this than most people i expect how do you see this running?
 
what we need to do is make it impossible for a man to go direct to a training centre and do his part 1 . the training needs to be experience based, E.G 6 months labouring, and yard work till part 1a 6 months doing very basic scaffolding till part1 b then 12 month as part of a squad doing general independent scaffolds on housing estates , new builds, refurbs, etc before going for part2 a then 12 months doing more work that is gonna use their brain a bit more before part2 b then at least 2 or more years till they even think about advanced .

just bring old school back
 
Celticbhoy

As you know it is not only my view but yourselfs and many others, just needs a catalyst to start a chain reaction.

gar...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom