should price work be banned

allan666

allan666

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health and safety ******** seems to be taking over now so surely its time to ban price work . i am sure all scaffolders would agree that safety goes out the window when your on a price . the quality of the scaffold goes downhill as well .
 
allan66 said:
health and safety ******** seems to be taking over now so surely its time to ban price work . i am sure all scaffolders would agree that safety goes out the window when your on a price . the quality of the scaffold goes downhill as well .
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The quality doesn't go down for me cos if you take the price and cut corners the gaffer is gonna get you back to put it right fir nothing cos he's already paid you ,but to your question no it shouldn't in my opinion ,am sure others will disagree...
 
In my opinion price work should be banned. I know there will be plenty on here who do it and will disagree especially as effectively every scaffold contractor is earning on price work. I have no real fears on the h&s front as we are all good at following the rules for our own good, however I have genuine concerns regarding quality in every trade when on a price not just the scaffs. I have seen so called 1st class tradesmen churn out terrible work under the guise of price work and get rewarded with top dollar for sheer quantity and another guy serving up top quality work to be proud of getting a basic wage. It is my belief that large quantities of shoddy workmanship should not be rewarded. I would far rather see a descent sustainable hourly rate.
 
allan66 said:
health and safety ******** seems to be taking over now so surely its time to ban price work . i am sure all scaffolders would agree that safety goes out the window when your on a price . the quality of the scaffold goes downhill as well .
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I am a scaffolder, working 32 years on price work. My Knees and elbows are shot, my hips are getting dodgy, and now as most of you will be in the same boat as me, my pay is down on average £250.00 per week as 3 years ago.

I am also one of the above Health & Safety ******** as Allan calls them.
I have now abandoned the idea of trying to make a few extra quid, by either 'Riving and tearing' or 'Cutting corners'.

I may not be the best Scaffolder or quickest in the world, however, when i go to bed at night, i know my scaffold will not contribute to the HSE statistics regarding RIDDOR or even worse case scenario 'Fatalities'.

IMHO yes ban price work, seems great in the summer sun, however when digging your kit out of the snow at 6.00 am on a Jan morning, then starting to put the sh1te up in pissing down weather:sad:

£20.00 ph seems a fair price to me for a advanced scaffolder, bearing in mind, we have not had a pay rise for 3 years (CIJC).

Regards

Paddy
 
All good points well made, and maybe this should be on another thread but what would you consider a good hourly rate bearing in mind the company overheads? £21 per hour is as much as I could charge a main contractor, and even at that it's all doom and effin gloom from them.
 
Human Nature

The more we get, the more we want;) However, as has been stated before, the quality of the finished product must be in effect compromised.

I am actually debating this issue with myself as i type:nuts:

We are professional tradesmen, do we or dont we put that additional tie in? Do we wrap the toeboard fitting? Price work, i think not, £20.00 ph i would polish the scaffold before i put it up:D

regards

Paddy
 
paddy carr said:
Human Nature

The more we get, the more we want;) However, as has been stated before, the quality of the finished product must be in effect compromised.

I am actually debating this issue with myself as i type:nuts:

We are professional tradesmen, do we or dont we put that additional tie in? Do we wrap the toeboard fitting? Price work, i think not, £20.00 ph i would polish the scaffold before i put it up:D

regards

Paddy
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aom said:
All good points well made, and maybe this should be on another thread but what would you consider a good hourly rate bearing in mind the company overheads? £21 per hour is as much as I could charge a main contractor, and even at that it's all doom and effin gloom from them.
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I got a few things i want to point out

1) on the NJCECI (Blue book) pay scheme are as follows:

Labourer (grade 2) £10.21
Part 1 (grade 3) £11.58
Part 2 (grade 4) £13.68
Advanced (grade 5) £14.28
Chargehand (grade 6) £14.88

which is still in my opionion not very good (UNLESS YOU WORK THE OVERTIME AND WEEKENDS)

We should be getting

Labourer £10-£12ph
Part 1 £12-14
Part 2 £14-17
Advanced £17-20+

2) Over the years i have done a bit of price work and always earnt well, (BUT) if you earn to much obsticles generally get put in the way eg.
Lorry turning up late,
Wrong materials on lorry,
You get knocked because after you do the work, your agreed price is wrong.

So yes it should be banned but like i have stated above we should be getting more money day rate, im a advanced scaffolder and i wouldnt even mind work a 10 hour day, but i should get £20ph = £200 a day, which is not unreasonable.

Any1 agree or disagree!
 
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yes under current legislation..= doesnt pay all round......
 
Paddy,

My experience on price work scaffolds are very limited and my comments were more directed at other trades I have worked along side earning double and triple my money but couldn't lace my boots when it came to attention to detail. The thought process I used was more fallible, I reckoned rightly or wrongly that if that's what other trades do then scaffs will be no different. I have no doubt there is many jobs out there of better quality built on price than time but why take the risk, if your on time you still have to put in a good shift but nobody is looking to rip the spine from anyone. I always felt it was more sustainable to give the boy's a descent living wage and try and give them enough time to do a job that is fit for purpose. Doesn't always work that way especially when we were flooded with orders but there is know excuse for less than perfect at the moment as there is very little pressure to get to the next job and this is how I plan to survive the recession, by being better.
 
I have been on price work most of my life. From hours on the job to squares & now metre run.

All the firms I have worked for if you cut corners you would be docked.

Even down to folding the monoflex when stripping!!

You can put up an A1 scaffold on price but I agree your body takes a toll.

Money in scaffolding at the moment is very poor as a whole, it will take time to get back. Improving the quality of Scaffolders & making sure the training is set up in a more proactive way will help.

Part 1 after 1 year with on site assessment & class room test
Part 2 after 2 years with on site assessment & class room test
Advanced after min 5 years with on site assessment & class room test.
There needs to be more assessments through the companies so the trainees can be seen to undertake the tasks at each stage.

Can anyone quote pass rates for CISRS. How many people fail!!

We are always saying GCSE tests in school are getting easier but people still fail!!!:unsure:

Ragscaff
 
ragscaff said:
I have been on price work most of my life. From hours on the job to squares & now metre run.

All the firms I have worked for if you cut corners you would be docked.

Even down to folding the monoflex when stripping!!

You can put up an A1 scaffold on price but I agree your body takes a toll.

Money in scaffolding at the moment is very poor as a whole, it will take time to get back. Improving the quality of Scaffolders & making sure the training is set up in a more proactive way will help.

Part 1 after 1 year with on site assessment & class room test
Part 2 after 2 years with on site assessment & class room test
Advanced after min 5 years with on site assessment & class room test.
There needs to be more assessments through the companies so the trainees can be seen to undertake the tasks at each stage.

Can anyone quote pass rates for CISRS. How many people fail!!

We are always saying GCSE tests in school are getting easier but people still fail!!!:unsure:

Ragscaff
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When i done my advanced in april 08, a part 1 (GOVERMENT PAID) African failed the course, he put a clip on the middle standard on the kicker lol, useless people
 
price work whats that lol , only getting a basic 39 hrs and have been for the last two years .and haven't had a pay rise in that time either
 
essex said:
I got a few things i want to point out

1) on the NJCECI (Blue book) pay scheme are as follows:

Labourer (grade 2) £10.21
Part 1 (grade 3) £11.58
Part 2 (grade 4) £13.68
Advanced (grade 5) £14.28
Chargehand (grade 6) £14.88

which is still in my opionion not very good (UNLESS YOU WORK THE OVERTIME AND WEEKENDS)

We should be getting

Labourer £10-£12ph
Part 1 £12-14
Part 2 £14-17
Advanced £17-20+

2) Over the years i have done a bit of price work and always earnt well, (BUT) if you earn to much obsticles generally get put in the way eg.
Lorry turning up late,
Wrong materials on lorry,
You get knocked because after you do the work, your agreed price is wrong.

So yes it should be banned but like i have stated above we should be getting more money day rate, im a advanced scaffolder and i wouldnt even mind work a 10 hour day, but i should get £20ph = £200 a day, which is not unreasonable.

Any1 agree or disagree!
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Fair enough Essex, but hear is one man that just couldn't afford to pay £200 a shift. If you can get that working from home good on you, and if they can use another advanced scaff give them my number. Also the problems you have mentioned are the same problems every firm deals with every day and have to take the hit on it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. That said it's hard to argue against.
 
Price work should be banned and a decent wage set for the level of scaffolding you are being employed to do.

Not only is your skill level a factor,but the type of work the employer is employing you to do.The blue chip companies will allocate more money for scaffolding (Safety) than a jobbing builder will

I worked on price for 30 years and I know for a fact that corners did get cut,if you could get away with it you did.I for one would not be able to make the money I did with the constraints and legislation that are in place today.

Another factor in the payment debate is the use of Agency,s who are taking there cut from the pot.The number of "companies and one man bands" that are quoting scaffold works is far too large. The riddor accident figures show that firms with less than 20 employees have the most accidents in any given year

I am now a ******* H&S consultant as Allan refers to us.Please do not shoot the messenger we do not make the legislation,regulations,guidelines and all the other site requirements that apply these days.

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------

Price work should be banned and a decent wage set for the level of scaffolding you are being employed to do.

Not only is your skill level a factor,but the type of work the employer is employing you to do.The blue chip companies will allocate more money for scaffolding (Safety) than a jobbing builder will

I worked on price for 30 years and I know for a fact that corners did get cut,if you could get away with it you did.I for one would not be able to make the money I did with the constraints and legislation that are in place today.

Another factor in the payment debate is the use of Agency,s who are taking there cut from the pot.The number of "companies and one man bands" that are quoting scaffold works is far too large. The riddor accident figures show that firms with less than 20 employees have the most accidents in any given year

I am now a ******* H&S consultant as Allan refers to us.Please do not shoot the messenger we do not make the legislation,regulations,guidelines and all the other site requirements that apply these days.
 
Rigger,

You mention that the smaller firms are more likely to have an accident, is this scaffolding firms with less than 20 which I am sure is quite a lot or construction firms?
 
aom said:
Fair enough Essex, but hear is one man that just couldn't afford to pay £200 a shift. If you can get that working from home good on you, and if they can use another advanced scaff give them my number. Also the problems you have mentioned are the same problems every firm deals with every day and have to take the hit on it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. That said it's hard to argue against.
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Before the recession nearly all good part 2's and advanced was on £140-£160+ a day, it was the going rate pretty much, i no with the recession hitting etc the money has gone down, but that money was until 3-4pm everyday, so if you work that out for a 10 hour shift, would be roughly £200, considering we got a very hard jobs, i dont see why any other trades should get more, my mate is a sparky and is still on today £150 a day, so how is that fair, considering you can re-use the material again and again, the most expensive thing for a company is labour cost, alot of scaffolders, dont care and say 'slash it up' or 'it aint my dads firm', i for 1 dont agree with this, but maybe if we all got paid more, then 90% of people would take more pride in there work and work harder without killings themselfs on price.
 
not having a go at small scaff outfits the figures are for all construction companies,but in my experience some of the smaller scaff companies do tend to bend the rules and working practices

I am not including your company or the others that I know post on here,Just by been here they are showing a greater awareness of safety and trying to change things for the good of all

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------

Essex how many more f*cking cups are you going to put on the mantle piece :D
 
Rigger said:
not having a go at small scaff outfits the figures are for all construction companies,but in my experience some of the smaller scaff companies do tend to bend the rules and working practices

I am not including your company or the others that I know post on here,Just by been here they are showing a greater awareness of safety and trying to change things for the good of all

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------

Essex how many more f*cking cups are you going to put on the mantle piece :D
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lol i want to get them all, when im bored indoors i try and win another 1 :D
 
Health and Safety and price work don't go together/Whats healthy about graffting your tayters off 7 days a week/Whats Safe about rushing around to meet the target/ Theres to many restrictions in place nowadays/All the h/s experience, doublehand rails,harnesses,from Mechanical sites is now on the civil side,<town> Alloy steps double lanyards give over is'nt it time we all just slowed down and just do things safely cause thats how accidents and deaths in our game will be stopped as the song goes no more hero's anymore/Don't get me wrong we can get are rates of pay upped by sticking together/But if all the scaffolders in this country downed tools for a couple of weeks, we'd well push the price back up........ that's never going to happen though as everyone is desperate for work and people will take on who ever they want to get the job done .;)Especially with all these cheap flights knocking about:eek:
 
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