Scaffolders Impact Wrenches Jan 2017 Memo

smark150 said:
Nah I don't know nothing fella coming from a scaff who don't know the difference from a foot tie and a blocking lift

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And the difference is nothing its the same thing by a different name
 
I've a couple of issues here, Firstly, ( bare with me) when you see the mechanics changing tyres, they'll always put the torque wrench on the bolts after to check.

I won't let my lads use them for erecting because of this, if someone issues some defined guidance on their use, then i'm happy to review it and make a decision then. I do let them use them for stripping, but have a bin of fittings that seems to be getting quite full, with fittings in with missing bolts.

My other concern with the the wrenches is false ties. When i wrap a double or swiv up, i'll always back it up ever so slightly to make sure the bolt is located properly in the back of the fitting, always do, can't remember if it was something i got taught on a course or something one of the old boys told me many moons ago, it takes a milli second before anyone spouts about time and such. Some of the fittings ive bought over the last few years from various suppliers, have been, to be honest feckin w4nk and have noticed the tendency for false ties on fittings has increased due to cheaper manufactured fittings? Might be wrong there, but thats how i seems. I'll be honest, i've never used an I.W, but do any of the gunslingers find this a problem with I.W's? Everyone must have seen a ledger thats slipped because one of the barneys has been nipped up to early, and some fat roofer has jumped off the roof on to the job, then you check the fitting that's slipped and it's not even finger tight.

Agreed that anything that makes the industry better, either by reducing the wear and tear on us silly sods that have been doing this too long, or increasing productivity is a good thing, but that said, the tools have got to be right. In an ideal world, we'd have a small, light as a spanner wrench, that would back up ever so slightly when you take your finger off the trigger, that would also be small enough to fit in a proper pouch, and stop you performing a ten point manoeuvre to fit through a ladder gap and have a properly regulated gearing system that wouldn't over torque fittings.

Come on i am a scaffolder, everyone knows we don't ask for too much!!
 
copperknackers said:
I've a couple of issues here, Firstly, ( bare with me) when you see the mechanics changing tyres, they'll always put the torque wrench on the bolts after to check.

I won't let my lads use them for erecting because of this, if someone issues some defined guidance on their use, then i'm happy to review it and make a decision then. I do let them use them for stripping, but have a bin of fittings that seems to be getting quite full, with fittings in with missing bolts.

My other concern with the the wrenches is false ties. When i wrap a double or swiv up, i'll always back it up ever so slightly to make sure the bolt is located properly in the back of the fitting, always do, can't remember if it was something i got taught on a course or something one of the old boys told me many moons ago, it takes a milli second before anyone spouts about time and such. Some of the fittings ive bought over the last few years from various suppliers, have been, to be honest feckin w4nk and have noticed the tendency for false ties on fittings has increased due to cheaper manufactured fittings? Might be wrong there, but thats how i seems. I'll be honest, i've never used an I.W, but do any of the gunslingers find this a problem with I.W's? Everyone must have seen a ledger thats slipped because one of the barneys has been nipped up to early, and some fat roofer has jumped off the roof on to the job, then you check the fitting that's slipped and it's not even finger tight.

Agreed that anything that makes the industry better, either by reducing the wear and tear on us silly sods that have been doing this too long, or increasing productivity is a good thing, but that said, the tools have got to be right. In an ideal world, we'd have a small, light as a spanner wrench, that would back up ever so slightly when you take your finger off the trigger, that would also be small enough to fit in a proper pouch, and stop you performing a ten point manoeuvre to fit through a ladder gap and have a properly regulated gearing system that wouldn't over torque fittings.

Come on i am a scaffolder, everyone knows we don't ask for too much!!
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Good honest post copper!
 
copperknackers said:
I've a couple of issues here, Firstly, ( bare with me) when you see the mechanics changing tyres, they'll always put the torque wrench on the bolts after to check.

I won't let my lads use them for erecting because of this, if someone issues some defined guidance on their use, then i'm happy to review it and make a decision then. I do let them use them for stripping, but have a bin of fittings that seems to be getting quite full, with fittings in with missing bolts.

My other concern with the the wrenches is false ties. When i wrap a double or swiv up, i'll always back it up ever so slightly to make sure the bolt is located properly in the back of the fitting, always do, can't remember if it was something i got taught on a course or something one of the old boys told me many moons ago, it takes a milli second before anyone spouts about time and such. Some of the fittings ive bought over the last few years from various suppliers, have been, to be honest feckin w4nk and have noticed the tendency for false ties on fittings has increased due to cheaper manufactured fittings? Might be wrong there, but thats how i seems. I'll be honest, i've never used an I.W, but do any of the gunslingers find this a problem with I.W's? Everyone must have seen a ledger thats slipped because one of the barneys has been nipped up to early, and some fat roofer has jumped off the roof on to the job, then you check the fitting that's slipped and it's not even finger tight.

Agreed that anything that makes the industry better, either by reducing the wear and tear on us silly sods that have been doing this too long, or increasing productivity is a good thing, but that said, the tools have got to be right. In an ideal world, we'd have a small, light as a spanner wrench, that would back up ever so slightly when you take your finger off the trigger, that would also be small enough to fit in a proper pouch, and stop you performing a ten point manoeuvre to fit through a ladder gap and have a properly regulated gearing system that wouldn't over torque fittings.

Come on i am a scaffolder, everyone knows we don't ask for too much!!
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I think it all comes down to experience. It goes without saying that the more you use the piece of equipment the easier it gets etc etc. I've found that with a wrench, the tendency for the t-piece of the bolt to not 'sit' in the fitting properly, is generally eradicated due to the vibration of the tool being used. Like you stated earlier, it is good practice to check. I was always taught that by my mentors. I'm also of the opinion that this torque figure produced by the NASC of 50 Nm is tosh! I had a mate bring in a torque wrench to see what it was like to have a fitting done up to that figure. It was barely past finger tight. When the course are being carried out, do the instructors go around with a torque wrench and check?? I don't think they would, they would do the usual and tap the fittings to check for any loose ones.
I think the use of wrenches needs to be taught properly. If the NASC have come up with a figure then why don't they include the use of these tools on the course?
 
I was taught the same method copper.......always served me well, especially when using dog bones which I personally found particularly bad for twisted bolts that broke(loosened) afterwards.I think there's a place for IW in scaffolding if they're built for that use, but at the moment heavy trigger fingers and piles of strained fittings are telling a different story.
 
I wonder if you could use a hammer drill for system although you would probably need jack hammer for kwikstage
 
I would just like to say in 30 years i have never & i mean never checked how tight my fittings are with a torque wrench - where abouts on your normal scaffold spanner is there a torque setting? Nowhere so it doesnt take a great deal of common sence to realise that a 10st scaff isn't gonna do a fitting up as tight as a 18st scaffolder.- the use of a IW with a preset torque value means more consistency which i have proven in my method statement & risk assessment- i really dont understand all the negativity towards them & having used them & supply them to all my guys for many years now i only see the benefits & would challange anyone to use them & not be converted. I personally i think its there cost that turns a lot of guys of - after all thats a lot of beer tokens or what ever tickles your fancy.
 
southernpoofter said:
I would just like to say in 30 years i have never & i mean never checked how tight my fittings are with a torque wrench - where abouts on your normal scaffold spanner is there a torque setting? Nowhere so it doesnt take a great deal of common sence to realise that a 10st scaff isn't gonna do a fitting up as tight as a 18st scaffolder.- the use of a IW with a preset torque value means more consistency which i have proven in my method statement & risk assessment- i really dont understand all the negativity towards them & having used them & supply them to all my guys for many years now i only see the benefits & would challange anyone to use them & not be converted. I personally i think its there cost that turns a lot of guys of - after all thats a lot of beer tokens or what ever tickles your fancy.
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Yep couldn't agree more I think they are great my boss supply's us with them couldn't be happier


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Copper hows it going fella ,
i would disagree that there is a problem with false tightened fittings using an IW no more so then using a spanner ,
it would only ever occur with inexperienced scaffolders,
like your self i was always taught to look at the back of the fitting as i tightened it,
so the problem is not with the tool its with the inexperience of the person using it.
they are the way forward mate,
please try one for a couple of days and judge for yourself
 
I have stripped some jobs in the past using a 2' tube as a spanner extension ( full new build, 4 lifts), no joke, every fitting wrapped to oblivion. My impact wrench doesnt come close. As for the t bar not being seated right, oiled fittings plays its part, as does experiance of handling different types/brands of fittings.
 
sadact said:
I have stripped some jobs in the past using a 2' tube as a spanner extension ( full new build, 4 lifts), no joke, every fitting wrapped to oblivion. My impact wrench doesnt come close. As for the t bar not being seated right, oiled fittings plays its part, as does experiance of handling different types/brands of fittings.
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WTF the fittings are over tightened mate ,
i can do my fittings tighter with a spanner ,
maybe the wan Kers that be should be teaching the young guns how to use a spanner before they even start to criticise us for using an IW,
nip it ,then 2 round turns was always the form with a spanner
 
THE BEER tokens is what has put me off
you got me sussed suvern;)
good wee Debate though and has brought a few out of the Woodwork
 
When i said about the fittings with the 2 ' tube, they had been fastened with a spanner and not an impact!
 
southernpoofter said:
I would just like to say in 30 years i have never & i mean never checked how tight my fittings are with a torque wrench - where abouts on your normal scaffold spanner is there a torque setting? Nowhere so it doesnt take a great deal of common sence to realise that a 10st scaff isn't gonna do a fitting up as tight as a 18st scaffolder.- the use of a IW with a preset torque value means more consistency which i have proven in my method statement & risk assessment- i really dont understand all the negativity towards them & having used them & supply them to all my guys for many years now i only see the benefits & would challange anyone to use them & not be converted. I personally i think its there cost that turns a lot of guys of - after all thats a lot of beer tokens or what ever tickles your fancy.
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Morning SP, apologies, probably worded that wrong, i'm not saying we should be checking fittings for torque loads when using I.W's, it's just an observation that in one application where the I.W's are used, there is a need to check with a torque wrench after use. Is this because in that particular application, (changing tyres) the required torque can't be achieved via the use of the wrench alone? if so then this sort of poopoos the over tightening of fittings argument. But if they get the torque wrench out to check whether the bolt is tightened to the required load, then thats my concern. If this was the case, then using a geared bit of equipment would negate the need to test? because the torque settings would be set and not over exceeded, dependant on what setting you have your drill on? Not wanting to cause to a furore, just trying to look at it with as neutral a view as i can, and like i say, i've never used one, so i'm probably speaking out of my ass. ( Fuk off you lot that say it won't be first time :nuts:) I'm still a bit sceptical about using them until someone can issue some findings following a proper examination of their use. God forbids something happens and when the investigation starts, it becomes clear that there was an I.W involved somewhere on the job, and because them that shall be all powerful and tell use how we should do our jobs, haven't issued guidance on their use, then someone probably gets dry bummed. If someone at the top table would put their head above the parapet and commit to looking at them seriously, then they can be introduced in to the training courses and everyone is happy.

philliosmaximus said:
Copper hows it going fella ,
i would disagree that there is a problem with false tightened fittings using an IW no more so then using a spanner ,
it would only ever occur with inexperienced scaffolders,
like your self i was always taught to look at the back of the fitting as i tightened it,
so the problem is not with the tool its with the inexperience of the person using it.
they are the way forward mate,
please try one for a couple of days and judge for yourself
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Ey up Phil, going well mate, hows you?
Might have a look at one and have a play with some little jobs in the back of the yard, just for my personal curiosity.
 
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Good valid points in both camps…jury still out on the IW...

What improvements would you like to see ???
 
Garry Adams said:
Good valid points in both camps…jury still out on the IW...

What improvements would you like to see ???
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Hows Garry,

the only real thing i have to say is they are noisy ,so if they could be quietened down a bit would be great ,
apart from that i think they a fantastic aid to the lads , especially us older ones with all the aches and pains but still not ready to be put out to graze just yet.
 
HAVs have always been my issue if a Plater can only use a Grinder for X amount of time
What damage would a street scaff on price do with an IW
If thats clarified then yes all the way ;)
 
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