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skooko

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has any body on hear ever been threatend with the dreaded red or yellow card for not doing some thing you thought was dangerous (ie i was once told by the site agent that if i didnt put the tag back on a scaffold that i had just pulled the tag because the brickies had torn it to pieces they would red card me needles to say i wouldnt put it back so i was thrown of site for doing the safe thing ) dont know about the rest of you but i think this is a bit unfair that these main contractors can abuse these so called safety measures so i was wondering if there was any sort of thing we could set up that recorded all these instances and see which of the main contractors are the worst i dont mean just slaging them off on a single post maybe set something up that we can privately message and tell your story to it might be intererting to see if its firms or induviduals that keep popping up
 
They are all for health and safety mate, that is unless it's going to interfere with getting job done on time or holding work up etc :)
 
1 site we work on phone us a few months back haveing a go because our safety man pull a tag for handrails being moved and over load of scaffold and they said if it happen a gain then we would be off site, they do not care till something happens than it the scaff flaut we take photos now and keep records because they just do not care will not have load bays then take handrails down and put s--t loads of gear on it do your head in.
 
You should ask for it in writing,and report to hs. If you put that tag on under pressure knowing its not right,your guilty if an accident occurs.
 
We have quite a collection of red and yellow cards, remember one lad getting a red card for not clipping on, but because the site wanted the lift finished, it wouldn't come into force until the next day!:nuts:
 
HatterScaff said:
We have quite a collection of red and yellow cards, remember one lad getting a red card for not clipping on, but because the site wanted the lift finished, it wouldn't come into force until the next day!:nuts:
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We were working on a site in Birmingham for a brickwork company who in turn were employed by ISG, one morning a scaffolder was yellow carded by ISG for not clipping on, upon speaking to the lad they smelled drink on him [poor sod had been to a barbeque the night before] and red carded him from site.
at the end of the month we invoiced the brickworks company for works done only to be informed they were docking us £500.00 for the red card as this they said was a rule laid down by every main contractor. Upon further investigation with ISG we found this was not the case it was another scam to avoid getting away from paying scaffolding companies what they are rightly owed :mad::mad:
 
Had same situation to that with a brickwork firm in southampton on a RG site , queried the legality of it and got paid
 
Zotsey said:
They are all for health and safety mate, that is unless it's going to interfere with getting job done on time or holding work up etc :)
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Health and Safety aint worth a rub.
Only when it suits them...

I was on a job a few years ago, running it over in Limehouse, East London.
I was standing on the toeboard, behind a fully erected lift, double handrailed the lot, taking a brace out and because @ 5' 6" im a short-arse and the lift was higher then normal i needed a boost up.

Standing on the toebaord was the only way i could do it, save putting a hop-up lift in, which was pointless and the contractor would never have paid for it anyway.

I was told get down, or id be thrown off the job, by some prick who'd never come out the office... It was eventually brushed under the carpet, as he was told i was the foreman and i was 'well liked', did a good job, always come in and blah blah blah.

THEN - A week later, i was getting ready to go home (all washed up and no work clothes/PPE on) and the SAME guy who wanted to kick me off the job asked me to run up and quickly take a toeboard off, for some brickies... IN MY TRAINERS and NO PPE, which he was happy with, because it needed to be done that very minute.


As usual.
Health and Safety is a load of old shiit.

The worlds biggest rip off and money maker since Religion. :notrust:
 
Skooko,

I would say we all have stories here of a similar nature, I'm not sure a black list would be the answer, you would probably find yourself running out of customers fast. I think by now we all know it's not what goes on that really matters it's what you can prove went on after an incident. It's not always easy and I know I should listen to my own advice sometimes but photographs, written instructions and even a 5 minute chat to men on site would give any investigator a good insight to how the site was run. Even if you do manage to do all that you still have insurer's to deal with who are only too aware the chances are you are much smaller than them and will make you jump through hoops for any claim and then tell you to take them to court. It's not meant to be an ideal solution but the best you can do is "If you can't beat them, join them" and cover your backside as best you can because you can be damn sure the client in the office will have.
 
i have just recently gone back to site work and house bashing after a time on stations and other major contracts and im not suprised that things havent changed,i tend to find that so many site gaffers pull and rip scaffs to peices and yet we have to walk nah stumble over bad ground and excavations yet this is acceptable,play them at there own game tie them in knots with the method statement.it should state about level ground and acceptable ground to base out on
 
i wasnt surgesting setting up a black list what i was proposing was some where we could store any instances where the site agent threatend you with the red or yelow card because you wouldnt do some thing ilegal (ie i have just been thrown of site by jo blogs from bogit bugerit and skarper for not leaving the handrail of a working lift )all i was sujesting some where to store these bully boys names i know we all bend the rules at times but if your getting threatend for following the rules it just seems bang out i wouldlike to think that if any body ever lost there jobs because of these ****** and the same site agents name or firm came up again and again on a recorded and dated story stored some where would this stored information help the scaffolder in any way if the hse ever got involved
 
Good idea skooko,we could call it the doomsday book. You mean some sot of flagging system.
 
What i find helps is Quote,quote and quote, WAHR 2005 is not a massive Document, like TG20.08.

WAHR 2005, is easily readable in the 'Hierarchy of controls' Format. WAHR2005 is a Regulation it is Law.

If a major contractor,insists, which normally they dont,to a unsafe practice. It's the 'Site agent' trying to up the Ante,and get 'Brownie points' Print off your 'Reg' that you think they are contravening, and Produce it and ask for a signature.

If this is commonplace practice. Your office could have a 'Job lot' of individual WAHR 2005, regs to be issued by the 'Appointed person' on any dis-agreement.

Once they realise they are breaking the law.........you might need to tender for new work though.
 
paddy carr said:
What i find helps is Quote,quote and quote, WAHR 2005 is not a massive Document, like TG20.08.

WAHR 2005, is easily readable in the 'Hierarchy of controls' Format. WAHR2005 is a Regulation it is Law.

If a major contractor,insists, which normally they dont,to a unsafe practice. It's the 'Site agent' trying to up the Ante,and get 'Brownie points' Print off your 'Reg' that you think they are contravening, and Produce it and ask for a signature.

If this is commonplace practice. Your office could have a 'Job lot' of individual WAHR 2005, regs to be issued by the 'Appointed person' on any dis-agreement.

Once they realise they are breaking the law.........you might need to tender for new work though.
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Would a scaffold firm have the balls to follow it through and get black balled from many sites/companies or do what we usually do a take the blame for everything. Its the same all the time if anything goes wrong bblame it on the scaffs.
 
Question then is General. why scaff companies dont share info on companies and blackball them. Is there too many scaff companies? With system as an alternative to T&F would companies care if you blackballed them.
Im now in small works residential building, occasionally I'm called in as client has thrown builder off site. Its very difficult to find someone else to pick up the pieces,as you wonder why the previous people left. So its a money up front situation. As you know,people are loathe to pay up front,as now theyre not in control.
 
frederik said:
Question then is General. why scaff companies dont share info on companies and blackball them. Is there too many scaff companies? With system as an alternative to T&F would companies care if you blackballed them.
Im now in small works residential building, occasionally I'm called in as client has thrown builder off site. Its very difficult to find someone else to pick up the pieces,as you wonder why the previous people left. So its a money up front situation. As you know,people are loathe to pay up front,as now theyre not in control.
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There are to many cowboy scaffolding firms Frederick [no offence to anyone]
who will jump in and take the cream out of the proper scaffs mouths, how could you form a cartel with these people against the main building companies, they are like feral rats who go in cheap [in Bradford they are going in at less than £10.00 per metre run] and say ******** to the professional scaffolders, on top of this the majority of their equipment has been stolen fron the main players. :mad::mad:
 
And how do these "Cowboy" scaffold companies get on the sites without proper insurance RAMS , safety policys , carded men, rescue plans and all the rest that go with it these days
 
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