Looking for some advice

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newbie 693

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Good morning guys
I'm looking for some advice. We have a tube and fit scaffold on a timber frame building. I caught remember off had how many lifts it has but lets say it's 4. below the top lift we have brickies doing the block work ready fro the renders.

The lift they are working on have ledger bracing on them that obviously obstructs there movement along the scaffold when moving blocks to the work areas.

I have asked the scaffolding company if there is any way the can be removed and was told no chance. I've also notice that there are no ties on the scaffold and when I asked the scaffolding company about this they said the could not tie into the timber frame
Can anyone give me some advice I thought all scaffold had to be tied in. Also on refection and for future reference would it have been better to use a system scaffold for timber frame.

Thanks in advance
 
Hi newbie and welcome to the forum ,
my experience with timber frame builds is limited but as i recall the scaffolding is erected first then the frames dropped in and then the roof put on and then the brickwork gets brought up. So the scaffold may have been designed to be free standing with Buttresses as for taking out braces it can be done one lift at a time ( although i havent seen the job in question ) and "plan bracing" installed in its place this will probably not have been priced for and will be chargeable as an extra ( unless in the price ) I would have thought that a system scaffold would have been better for this type of work in general.

There are a few lads on here that do Timber frame jobs all the time and i am sure they will be able to help you :)
 
tell them to read SG28:09 it NEEDS tying in, if it is 4 lifts it should have a ring beam that will be sufficient to tie into, if not it needs a buttress etc.

If its tube and fitting they cant take the bracing out, you used to be able to but not anymore,
They should have used readylok transoms and this would have solved that problem.

Chancers come to mind??

PS Your not a brickie are you? i hate brickies :love:
 
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If he was a brickie he wouldn't have asked, the rusty spanner in his bucket would have already removed any bracing that was in the way and handrail where he wants to load directly onto the scaffold.:D
 
jakdan said:
tell them to read SG28:09 it NEEDS tying in, if it is 4 lifts it should have a ring beam that will be sufficient to tie into, if not it needs a buttress etc.

If its tube and fitting they cant take the bracing out, you used to be able to but not anymore,
They should have used readylok transoms and this would have solved that problem.

Chancers come to mind??

PS Your not a brickie are you? i hate brickies :love:
Click to expand...

Everyone hates brickies. :amuse:
 
newbie 693 said:
Good morning guys
I'm looking for some advice. We have a tube and fit scaffold on a timber frame building. I caught remember off had how many lifts it has but lets say it's 4. below the top lift we have brickies doing the block work ready fro the renders.

The lift they are working on have ledger bracing on them that obviously obstructs there movement along the scaffold when moving blocks to the work areas.

I have asked the scaffolding company if there is any way the can be removed and was told no chance. I've also notice that there are no ties on the scaffold and when I asked the scaffolding company about this they said the could not tie into the timber frame
Can anyone give me some advice I thought all scaffold had to be tied in. Also on refection and for future reference would it have been better to use a system scaffold for timber frame.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

SG28:10 is a guidance note from the National Access and Scaffolding Confederation, it states all freestanding timber frame structures must be designed. The HSE scafold advice sheet states freestanding scaffolds must be deigned as well. If a design was in place the designer could have maybe given you some options regarding the removal of ledger bracing or recommended system scaffold.

However if you have an untied scaffold i would recommend you get some buttresses on it or some other means of stability.

IF
 
i was told recently that the ledger bracing can be removed from one lift at a time as long as it is replaced by plan bracing. then you need to put them back in before removing them from the next lift . if its for brickies then no there is no way whatsoever they can be removed so they can just duck under them . its usually a good idea to put the access as far away as possible from where there working
 
allan666 said:
i was told recently that the ledger bracing can be removed from one lift at a time as long as it is replaced by plan bracing. then you need to put them back in before removing them from the next lift . if its for brickies then no there is no way whatsoever they can be removed so they can just duck under them . its usually a good idea to put the access as far away as possible from where there working
Click to expand...

Allan,

This is not written in TG20, if you need to change the bracing then you need to get design input.
 
newbie 693 said:
Good morning guys
I'm looking for some advice. We have a tube and fit scaffold on a timber frame building. I caught remember off had how many lifts it has but lets say it's 4. below the top lift we have brickies doing the block work ready fro the renders.

The lift they are working on have ledger bracing on them that obviously obstructs there movement along the scaffold when moving blocks to the work areas.

I have asked the scaffolding company if there is any way the can be removed and was told no chance. I've also notice that there are no ties on the scaffold and when I asked the scaffolding company about this they said the could not tie into the timber frame
Can anyone give me some advice I thought all scaffold had to be tied in. Also on refection and for future reference would it have been better to use a system scaffold for timber frame.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Hi newbie and welcome to the forum. There is an allowance that allows you to remove a maximum of 2 lifts of brace at a time to afford the trades free and unobstructed access on these lifts but the extra controls required to do this correctly some times makes it impracticable especially if there is roofers working on the top lift. As a company we wouldn't remove these braces either without an additional ssow in place and access to the upper lifts closed off.

The tie issue is now easily resolved with the array of ties on the market. This was a major issue for us when it came clear any buttressing was required to have design input and using known engineering principles was no longer sufficient for an advanced scaffolder with 20 odd years experience. To avoid using expensive designs we now use the Apollo timber tie(other ties are available) which work a treat in timber and can solve all sorts of problems. I would check carefully first before discussing further with the scaffs as I'm sure there will be some sort of tie be it raker or even jammer that you might not have noticed. Pm me your e-mail address and I can send over all the info you need for timber ties.

As for the system scaffold, I would have to agree it does work better for timber frame jobs. We very rarely use tube for multiple lift timber jobs as it just takes too long to adapt for all trades.

Hope this helps

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------
simian said:
Allan,

This is not written in TG20, if you need to change the bracing then you need to get design input.
Click to expand...

Got to be honest and say if I never read it in TG20, where the hell did I read it.:(
 
aom said:
Hi newbie and welcome to the forum. There is an allowance that allows you to remove a maximum of 2 lifts of brace at a time to afford the trades free and unobstructed access on these lifts but the extra controls required to do this correctly some times makes it impracticable especially if there is roofers working on the top lift. As a company we wouldn't remove these braces either without an additional ssow in place and access to the upper lifts closed off.

The tie issue is now easily resolved with the array of ties on the market. This was a major issue for us when it came clear any buttressing was required to have design input and using known engineering principles was no longer sufficient for an advanced scaffolder with 20 odd years experience. To avoid using expensive designs we now use the Apollo timber tie(other ties are available) which work a treat in timber and can solve all sorts of problems. I would check carefully first before discussing further with the scaffs as I'm sure there will be some sort of tie be it raker or even jammer that you might not have noticed. Pm me your e-mail address and I can send over all the info you need for timber ties.

As for the system scaffold, I would have to agree it does work better for timber frame jobs. We very rarely use tube for multiple lift timber jobs as it just takes too long to adapt for all trades.

Hope this helps

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------



Got to be honest and say if I never read it in TG20, where the hell did I read it.:(
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AOM, sorry i was not clear it only features in volume 2 TG20:08 under design input, the category of scaffolding dictated in this thread is a freestanding scaffold with no ties. To remove 2 lifts of ledger bracing you must adher to a strict criteria of ties.
 
That was what I thought Ian, for a minute there I thought I was imagining it.:eek:
 
aom said:
That was what I thought Ian, for a minute there I thought I was imagining it.:eek:
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It falls on Vol 2 page 160, its regarding ties at every other standard, every other lift, taking out the ledger brace and fixing it to the outside of the scaffold until you put it back.

Vol 1, states fully leger braced.

IF
 
That's the one. We have been asked once or twice about this but as I said just to many controls to make it workable on a busy site.
 
allan666 said:
so was i right ?
Click to expand...

Yes, just very hard to implement safely. Easiest solution for timber frames is lash it up with system and rattle loads of timber ties into it, problems solved.:cool:
 
aom said:
Yes, just very hard to implement safely. Easiest solution for timber frames is lash it up with system and rattle loads of timber ties into it, problems solved.:cool:
Click to expand...

Yes on removal but no on plan bracing as a replacement
 
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