Getting part 1 ticket

lmk said:
Instructor, can you tell me exactly what happens should an individual fail their assessment? Do they need to resit the entire course or do they just resit the assessment?
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IMK....The current CAP609 booklet from NASC that covers the scope of the course content within the CISRS scaffolding operative scheme states the following,
Candidates who fail to demonstrate the required level of experience skills and knowledge will fail the course. They will be required to attend the 2 week course again once they have gained sufficient experience if they wish to continue
However it also states that
As off January 2011 successful completion of a one day skills test is a mandatory element of the CISRS scheme. This is regardless of whether the trainee has previously achieved their VQ via another route e.g OSAT. A CISRS card will not be issued to those who fail to successfully complete the 1-day skills test. If a candidate fails the the skills test, they must re-sitat a later date after gaining sufficient experience.
This means that if the learner fails the assessment during the part 2 he needs to re-sit the entire course again, when he gained sufficient skill and knowledge. If he fails the one day final assessment he will need to be re-tested when he has gained sufficient skill.
The part one course is the introduction of basic scaffold skills and to give the learner an understanding of the current laws & industry guidance applying to scaffolding. At this time there is only a written test at the end of the part 1 that is not a pass fail assessment. There is no assessment of basic skill, so there is nothing to fail.
However Instructor says that this will change and that there will be a requirement for the learner to demonstrate he/she can erect a basic tower on their own.
I hope this helps you :idea:
 
It does Geoff, thanks. I fear that you may be unaware of all the changes taking place since the start of the year though. I know Instructor is correct in there is now an assessment element on the new part 1, and I've no reason to doubt that the failure rate is around the 30 mark to date. I also suspect that the 609 booklet your looking at has also been updated to account for all the new requirements. What I haven't heard yet, is what exactly happens to someone who fails the assessment on the part 1.
 
They have to become a brickie ....but are allowed to keep a spanner so they can remve handrails or anythig else in their way
 
lmk said:
It does Geoff, thanks. I fear that you may be unaware of all the changes taking place since the start of the year though. I know Instructor is correct in there is now an assessment element on the new part 1, and I've no reason to doubt that the failure rate is around the 30 mark to date. I also suspect that the 609 booklet your looking at has also been updated to account for all the new requirements. What I haven't heard yet, is what exactly happens to someone who fails the assessment on the part 1.
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To be honest I can not see how anyone can be asked to take an assessment on a part 1 that is pass / fail
I know that there is a minimum of 6 months employment as a scaffolders laborer, before being accepted on the part 1. But this is to ensure candidates have an awareness of material sizes and fitting types and that they are familiar with the work expected.
If a new candidate has just been loading lorries and kept in the yard it would be a bit unfair to expect him to be able to endure the peer pressure of a pass fail assessment erecting a tower on his own with a week or so training. At least 2 days of the 1st week are spent in the classroom covering WAHR & SG4:10 etc....... Also the NCC training program dictates that new learners are to erect all scaffolds in groups and not as a solo exercise in the part 1 course.( due to lack of experience)
I imagine the assessment & verification team will have at least 30 appeals on their desk to deal with by now then.

I always felt the best time to assess a learner on what they were taught in a part 1 was at the start of the part 2 as they would have a minimum of 6 months experience under their belt after completing the part 1. They should by this stage be able to erect a basic tower unassisted in order to continue with the part 2.
All of the jobs erected in the part 2 in CISRS are done in groups and the weak learners will always adopt the laboring role and generally hide and become the gray man.

From my experience I doubt if there will be any difference to the achievement rate, as like most education facilities their funding level is dependent of the pass rate and not the quality of training given. And I suspect the pass rate for the part 1 assessment is actually closer to 100%. In 7 years I never saw anyone fail an assessment.
 
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F.uck me it's scaffolding not rocket science. Maybe an IQ test instead of COTS would be better for the industry.
 
It's maybe not rocket science, but surely we can still discuss the pros and cons of the issue?
 
geoffbecks said:
To be honest I can not see how anyone can be asked to take an assessment on a part 1 that is pass / fail
I know that there is a minimum of 6 months employment as a scaffolders laborer, before being accepted on the part 1. But this is to ensure candidates have an awareness of material sizes and fitting types and that they are familiar with the work expected.
If a new candidate has just been loading lorries and kept in the yard it would be a bit unfair to expect him to be able to endure the peer pressure of a pass fail assessment erecting a tower on his own with a week or so training. At least 2 days of the 1st week are spent in the classroom covering WAHR & SG4:10 etc....... Also the NCC training program dictates that new learners are to erect all scaffolds in groups and not as a solo exercise in the part 1 course.( due to lack of experience)
I imagine the assessment & verification team will have at least 30 appeals on their desk to deal with by now then.

I always felt the best time to assess a learner on what they were taught in a part 1 was at the start of the part 2 as they would have a minimum of 6 months experience under their belt after completing the part 1. They should by this stage be able to erect a basic tower unassisted in order to continue with the part 2.
All of the jobs erected in the part 2 in CISRS are done in groups and the weak learners will always adopt the laboring roll and generally hide and become the gray man.

From my experience I doubt if there will be any difference to the achievement rate, as like most education facilities their funding level is dependent of the pass rate and not the quality of training given. And I suspect the pass rate for the part 1 assessment is actually closer to 100%. In 7 years I never saw anyone fail an assessment.
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Spot on Geoff it's ridiculous to fail someone for part 1 as its training and if they do ' fail ' it's down to the instructor not doing his job correctly
 
Bobbysupascaff said:
Spot on Geoff it's ridiculous to fail someone for part 1 as its training and if they do ' fail ' it's down to the instructor not doing his job correctly
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Thanks Bobby, but to be fair
Swifty is right as it is only scaffolding and not rocket science, However I think there should be a real assessment at the start of the part 2 on the ability of each learner to show they have a sufficient skill ability to build a basic square as that is all scaffolding is...Building and bracing Boxes
If they can't do this at the start of the part two then they did not learn enough on a part one, and yes that is down to the instructor, The problem is the Instructors just want a toss off job to see then out to retirement and a lot of the learners have no interest as their work mates slagg off the training centre and have no respect for H&S and see both as a waste of time and money.
The part one should be focused more on how to build something on your own and more time given to help those that have no idea or fail to understand what a brace is for................
The Part two should be more focused on the working at height and group activities with how to assemble the boxes into different structures

And the final assessment should be just that...a real assessment with a time limit for each task that you fail if you can not erect a basic structure correctly to British standard on your own, and screened off so they can not coppy each other .....not the everyone passes and gets a ticket that the centers have at the moment
 
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southernpoofter said:
I think you need to be made aware of the new citb recognised timescales coming into force in april
Minimum scaffold labour 2years
Minimum trainee scaffolder b4 you can progress to basic a further 2 years
Minimum basic scaffolder b4 you can proress to advanced a further 5years

A new nvq level 4 classification of advanced scaffold rigger on a platinum coloured card will be introduced by 2020 where an advanced card will have been held for a minimum of 10 years plus additional citb qualification of ASI / SMSTS/Harness inspector & tie test inspectors tckt & 1st aid- this will be concidered a higher qualification than a black supervisors tckt & will have a 3 yearly renewal programme of a 3 day classroom based course.[/QUOTE


Blah blah blah ffs , not been on in months and the poofs still at it screaming ME ME ME:eek:, I'll answer the OP question seen as you've attempted to muddy the answer to a simple question , Yes if you feel you want to go to BENEFIT and BETTER yourself batter in mate, Just finished my course yesterday and really enjoyed it , My experience of T+F was zilch , erected plenty of of cuplock etc , on the Tuesday ( first day in the shed I was putting fittings upside down and back to front lol , Aberdeen's on top rather than below etc etc) By the end of the fortnight i was flying erecting the steel , fairly simple TBH once you grasp it , lots to take in but well worth it and just remember your paying for it so try to get as much as possible out of the 2 weeks, FWIW i still have hundreds to learn but looking forward to it, have faith buddy!!
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Good to hear that you enjoyed it. Where did you do it?
 
Mono ????? After u spat ur dummy out at me last time i didnt think u were gonna reply to any of my posts-so hows that screaming me me me, i dont really understand your hostility, most guys on here throw comments around to individual threads-thats the whole idea of an open forum- but please feel free to slag me off I really dont mind, its just nice to see someone with such depth of knowledge within our industry whos only just recently qualifield contributing a total of 8 posts in 18months well done!.
 
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lmk said:
Good to hear that you enjoyed it. Where did you do it?
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Scotland Buddy , Good instructors ,good banter poor materials lol

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------
southernpoofter said:
Mono ????? After u spat ur dummy out at me last time i didnt think u were gonna reply to any of my posts-so hows that screaming me me me, i dont really understand your hostility, most guys on here throw comments around to individual threads-thats the whole idea of an open forum- but please feel free to slag me off I really dont mind, its just nice to see someone with such depth of knowledge within our industry whos only just recently qualifield contributing a total of 8 posts in 18months well done!.
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Well thank you very much sir , there you go you gave me a backhanded compliment loaded with sarcasm , but a compliment all the same, Poofter I honestly don't have hostility towards you , I simply think your a bit of moron who at one time were classed as newbie!! My point was the boy came on looking for a simple answer, could he pay for the course himself!! You choose to throw up hurdle after hurdle that many boys would have gave up at!! Encourage Poofter Encourage , FWIW I have over 20 years experience from most types of Building work to Cuplock and Quick stage , unfortunately as most of the Scottish boys will testify too is that bar Power stations and oil refinery's and obviously offshore T+F simply isn't used:sad: Anyhow lets call a truce my poofy pal xxx
 
:eek::nuts:- we may b BFF but I wouldnt even do that for my boyfriend...& he sucks & swallows lol;)
 
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