company/agency/umbrella , they all wanna F*** you

J

jb78

Guest
so lets see , THE COMPANY doesnt want to employ you , no, they dont want to give you holidays or sickpay or have any sort of insurance obligation for you , THE AGENCY , they'll give you work but they wanna make more money so they farm out the payroll part to an umbrella company and tell you your self employed , which saves them paying NI employers contributions , THE UMBRELLA , they get a big pot of money to make interest from and they base themselves offshore therefore avoiding paying tax on the money they make from your tax , and to cap it all they then charge you £25 quid for giving you your own wages , WHERE DOES THIS RIP OFF OF THE WORKING MAN END

---------- Post added at 12:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------

ive had enough of this **** and have looked into charities and i will be starting one soon in order to become tax exempt , hopefully

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

You should certainly aim to be paid a higher rate on Umbrella than you are on PAYE. when you are on PAYE your employer (the agency) is paying Employers National Insurance (NI) contributions to HMRC for you. The NI contribution for employers is 12.8% of your salary. If you switch to Umbrella the agency will no longer be considered to be your employer and will not have to pay this 12.8% - you will be paying these contributions yourself. Therefore you should be getting a higher rate of pay to cover this cost. If you were on 100 per day on PAYE you would want to add this 12.8% onto your daily rate (remembering you wont see this in your paycheck as it will go to HMRC) Therefore you should be aiming to renegotiate your rate from 100 to around 112-113 per day if you make the switch to Umbrella. You may be happy to accept a 10% uplift (to say 110) if the benefits of Umbrella in your case will mean you are significantly better off anyway.
 
Right on JB,it seems to be a sort of legal way of taking a fee for the pleasure of getting your own hard earned wages. Cant for the life of me see the need for it. UTR number and invoice for works done should be enough.
 
What are the reasons for the agency not to deduct your tax, why do they have to use umbrella companies?
 
from what ive been reading swifty , its not that they have to use them ,they want to use them , this means the agency doesnt have to waste time and money doing it themselves and they dont pay the NI

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

these ******* have set up a seamless organisation which benefits everyone , the company ,the agency,the umbrella, and i/me/you are at the end picking up any and all tax/ni obligations.

I have looked into and filled in the forms to start an unincorporated association (a sort of charity) the benefits of this are that 1.doesnt have to submit tax returns 2.can carry out commercial activities 3. can set up a trust to own property

i dont really know if what im talking about is possible , but im givin it a try
 
Just needs a few more people like jb to stand up against theese agencies!!!! there lazy idol people benefiting from the working mans sweat and tears
 
Jb great idea not sure of the charity but i supose to be a charity you need to give to the needy(the scaffs lol ) i have also had a little plan was sitting in a resturant last night ioand on a leaflt they explained how there tips work if paid in cash the waiter/ess
recives them at the end of the week, if you pay a tip via your card what then happens is the transaction is prosessed the waiter/ess wages has ni cotributions and tax removed first then there tips added to there wages, so this got me thinking if yu were to work for a companie for min wage and intead of pumping you wage up with bonuses and what have you they have a compulsory tip fomr your gaffer to yoyu to make up your wage. Not only that if you were to start your own bussiness up am sure you could work it round this as well do every job for cost ie petrol,tell them the cost will be £30 for every and any job and that there will be a comulsorie tip of £3,000 just say fso then you havent made anything working for your self there for no ni contributions or tax you have just been tiped an awfull lol lol bnut this is all false econemy if every 1 did it concil tax and every other tax would hit the roof lol
 
the way you describe this system is the same as one of the umbrellas where they make it look like your wage is lower and the rest is well , whatever , a tip , the evolution of these tax avoidance systems for businesses and the construction industry enable them to pay pretty much nothing and with this system of company/agency/umbrella they save all costs associated with employing someone.

If the average person or business tried working in this method as you suggest theyd be fuckin shut down or jailed because of the tax negligence
 
I personally have nothing against the idea of using agencies.
With the fluctuating demand for scaffolding hence scaffolders they make sense.
I have in the past worked for many agencies and had no more problems getting my hard earned than you do working direct.
It used to be you had a much higher rate than the directly employed bloke working next to you, this made up for the fact that you weren't getting holiday pay, travel or a guaranteed full week and could be surplus to requirements at short notice.
Nowadays from the jobs I've seen advertised the agency rate and the directly employed rate are getting very similar, who is dictating the rates the agency or their clients?
 
Swifty am guessing both and we crnt stop it the client wants cheap labour and the agencie want money its all in the quantity of men the agencies have £1/£2 off every wage over 100/200 or more men soon adds up the cheaper thye get it the more owrk they will get for them selves and then in turn the client is happy with x amount of scaff at x pounds. Its totally rong like you had sai if yor agencey you should get more than the pay to cover cost in unemployment sick holidays ,in the public sector the agencie rates are over doubble the paye rates to compensate for short term work holidays and time off y are we getting stung
 
my unincorporated association forms are off in the post. I have just founded the scaffolding foundation , a charity to enhance and help scaffolders in their careers through funding , training and costs associated with gaining employment. I had originally chosen the name S.A.D. (SCAFFOLDERS AGAINST DRUGS) but i realised that wasn't going to work , i floated the idea but not many scaffolders seemed to be aginst drugs.
 
So whjats that setting your own firm up training lads and there for with it been a foundation profit is tax free???
 
in reality i suppose its supposed to be about what i said but , if this status enables certain allowances then thats great , im clear in my motives im doing this for me
 
jb78 said:
in reality i suppose its supposed to be about what i said but , if this status enables certain allowances then thats great , im clear in my motives im doing this for me
Click to expand...

LOL good luck .....however its not that simple, without eating porridge lol

Otherwise every single company would be regd as a charity.
 
yes , but companies cant be charitys , im not a company , i can be a charity , i dunno about tax exemption or if its possible but its worthwhile trying , someone can set up one of these associations and then set up a trust for the association and then the trust can own property , so it could be used for a good purpose , like selling your house and not paying all the **** that goes with it. I am saying this from a loose understanding of whats actually possible but learning as i go. If 1 person reads this and decides to do something similar then thats good. PLAY THE SYSTEM , its not just for rich businessman.
 
yes , but companies cant be charitys , im not a company , i can be a charity , i dunno about tax exemption or if its possible but its worthwhile trying , someone can set up one of these associations and then set up a trust for the association and then the trust can own property , so it could be used for a good purpose , like selling your house and not paying all the **** that goes with it. I am saying this from a loose understanding of whats actually possible but learning as i go. If 1 person reads this and decides to do something similar then thats good. PLAY THE SYSTEM , its not just for rich businessman.
 
A rep from an agency called in our yard the other day offering to supply part 2's for £2.00 an hour less than we pay our directly employed part 2's.

---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

And she had a see through top and a mini skirt on, I thought it was a f.ucking stripagram!!:love::love:
 
No I gave her a coffee and sat her down.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------

Then she told me to F.uck off:laugh::laugh:
 
See an accountant or HMRC if you are brave they will tell you why this is not viable too do.
 
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