BS5973 and TG20:08

i with joe to an extent,the tgs were brought in to standardise scaffolding across the EU.In this the bs did have to fall into line with the predominantly system scaffolding of the EU.
The best example i van give if sway bracing,you used to be able to plum off a brace to 100ft but no now its the same as system.
the fact that in 2012 we are now awaiting the third updated version of the TGs since 2008 tells me theres something wron.
yet since the CITBs inception in the late 60s early 70s the only real change to the recommended scaffoldiing procedures was the double handrail in 1994 or there abouts.
 
soon to be triple a ickle bird has told me...
 
Hope not and to be honest can't see it. Obviously may be wrong we all know I quite often am but would there not need to be a change also to existing permanent structures?
 
Permanent structures are covered by building regs mate so different already than the WAH regs.
 
I get that Phil and things may have changed but why would they insist on more going into a temporary structure than a permanent one? I know it's two different regulations governing each but it doesn't make sense to me. I got in to this a year or two back in fact longer so as I said things may have changed but they asked for a temporary public walkway which I got designed and accepted, built and again accepted when they signed the hand-over. A few weeks later they asked about the loadings which was on the design and hand-over cert but they thought they were light as they were quoting permanent structure as opposed to temporary. The designer fought my corner and eventually won the day but I feel whilst they are two different things and rightly so they are inextricably linked.

I have a bad feeling I am very wrong but triple hand rail, come on?
 
As I see it, the new regulatory guidance, arising initially from EU rules concerning system scaffolding, is an unnecessary handicap to the tubular scaffolding industry. The initial reason for reviewing UK scaffolding design rules was the political objective of aligning us with Europe but the most significant change is in the way the new rules were presented to bring about a much more rigid application of them than ‘user friendly’ BS:5973 did with the old ones.

I spent about 30 incident-free years pricing and managing scaffolding contracts on a commonsense basis with a few basic design rules in my head and requesting design input when I judged it was needed. I then left the operational side of the game for a time and what a shock I got when I returned and had to come to terms with TG20:08 which appears to have so little regard for its users on the operational/commercial management side of the business. A long list of high profile check boxes for clients and regulators to tic has appeared together with a minefield of liabilities and costs for scaffolding firms., especially the smaller ones without in-house designers.

Commonsense judgement has been thrown out of the window and we get high profile definitions of a multitude of specific ‘special structures’ with a cautiously low ceiling above which they should all be subject to ‘structural calculations’ or ‘special design’ and we have gone from the 106 pages of BS:5973 to the 243 pages of TG20:08. As for ‘S’ [the wind factor] …beyond commonsense decisions as to whether a design was necessary due to location / height / sheeting ….I never had to think about wind this much in all my 30 years of structural failure-free trading [except after a night in the pub!].

Missing from TG20:08 are clear definitions of exactly what ‘structural calculation’ means as opposed to ‘special design’ and a section directly and constructively addressing the subject of ‘generic design’ to make it more of an acceptable option. But the word ‘generic’ does not appear once in TG20:08 which confirms to me that it was written without the concept of ease of use on the horizon and with no regard for cost and efficiency.

It is also poorly explained in many places e.g. Vol 2 Appendix A header [pp 172-219] ‘Site in town, more than 2km upwind from site’…. ? …...and there are typing errors which need correcting [e.g. Vol 1 - Figure 42 on page 19 – ‘Refer to Flow Chart ..[page 179]’ should be 171… all evidence to me that it was not edited for user-feedback in its final stages.

In the real world some scaffolding firms and their clients must be co-operating in ignoring the onerous new rules to some extent in order to preserve the operational efficiency of their work together. I have also received the view that some larger firms with in-house designers [NASC firms?] welcome the restrictive new regime as it reduces competition from the small guys. If either of these is the case then TG20:08 is not doing the job it should be and which BS:5973 was. Bottom line -’ If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’.
 
Its reverse Spock mate

"the needs of the few,outway the needs of the Many"

,,,,,couldnt hope to write as in depth and elloquent as the blokes here ,hope that will do :D

The bottom line for me is its not just failing because its not well thought of,its designed to fail and drag the tube game down more for their own interests in system,i really believe that!

as a sideline lets see what happens with iw's,they speed up the tube game tremendously and i believe NASC will do all they can to get them banned!
 
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