Apprentices Wanted

Hi Ian.

Yes hopefully they will get that training in the first instance.
I think it prepares them mentaly and physically for the reminder of their training.

I think that the goverment/some sort of non profit making orginization need to step in and put in place some sort of embedded training/apprentice schemes for all construction trades across the board which is industry accepted not just scaffolding.

Dont think CITB/NASEC are doing enough for the trainees at present.
 
I remeber years ago Henry Boots used to offer 100s of apprenticeships to the majority of construction trades , you don't see it anymore
 
Ian yes remember it well.

Had some mates who went to them as trainee joiners.

All they learned was how to roll a joint and play cards!!!

Not saying that all goverment funded schemes (which i think Henry Boot was) were like that but most were.

There will never be a 100% competent training scheme that suits everyone im afraid.
 
hi guys,

i think it's fair to say that (and someone else further up says this too), all industries, not just scaffolding and construction, appear to be "cutting corners" when it comes to churning our qualified staff.

training schools are popping up everywhere, in any profession.

however, having said that, i think the wording is very ambiguous. i read it as meaning, they are beginning to roll out the selection process of the 11 week course, over the next 18 months.

Safety & Access Ltd will be starting our first selection of apprentices in September 2010 for the 11 Week Training programme over the next 18 Months. This is based on a selection process beforehand.

having said that.. that could make it even worse! i.e. it only takes 11 weeks to be qualified! mind you, the selection process beforehand could have criteria of having worked in the trade for x amount of time.

you guys that have been around for ages in the job, i can understand your attitude. i am sure you all did your time of carrying stuff around and "not doing it for real", as it were.

in a job that has so many dangers, you'd think it has to be learnt "from the ground up" and a classroom (with its NVQ's!) is not really the place, eh.
 
The actual time in the classroom/training centre isnt any different from the actual courses running now. Induction, 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, Final Assesment. The point being that a 17 year old is not mentally able to manage a gang or run a construction site, but in the eyes of CISRS he is........totally wrong, no-one in their right mind can justify this stupid thinking.
 
i think the way to go is the same as a brickie.do 6 months on site then 6 months in college over say 4 years as an apprentice.the only problem is scaffolding firms are very tight for money and it would need government money ..problem skint
 
EnglishBob

Kinda buy into what you are saying but think that 6 months continious at college would be too long.
What would they do and could you keep there attention/interest going that long?

I am all for on site assessments if they are carried out professionaly and they have a good balanced structure then maybe 1/2 week classroom training every 6 months with some sort of examination/assessment to see if the guys are suitable both mentaly/physically to go onto the next stage, whatever that stage maybe??

I think the first 6 months should be all about personal safety, WAH/fall protection guidance, component recognition & correct manual handling etc.

Also the charge hands, lead hands, scaffolders, supervison & management also need to be trained/educated as well.

What do you think guys?
 
I was a ex Bircham lad, 1 year training on every aspect of scaffolding and how the business works. All this was conducted in the training centre. At the end you had a advanced card but it was not recognised until you had a few years under your belt on site and laboured, 2nd fixed etc. This is by far the best training method.

The power stations are probably the best enviroment to learn apart from the above. Proper risk assessments, method statements, rescue plans, designs are all in place. As far as I know they do not let these lads on the boilers and more in the turbine crews and other works. I would think they would get to experience every type of scaffold on a station, which is a good thing. A obvious reason why they have choosen stations, it must be to cover all the experience for the NVQ's checklist.

I agree though too quick in getting card, should not be allowed part 2 until 2 years under their belt.
 
Scottishscaff
"I think the first 6 months should be all about personal safety, WAH/fall protection guidance, component recognition & correct manual handling etc.

Also the charge hands, lead hands, scaffolders, supervison & management also need to be trained/educated as well."

You have it in a nutshell there,I believe that the days of beasting should be a thing of the past.In all fairness there are very good lead hands that are willing and able to train newcomers ,there are also some that have not a clue of how to train or manage labour this also applies to supervisors and managers

As to how long and what form this training should take depends on the individual being trained.Educational standard,physical fitness,attitude and aptitude.Some will find it hard to make a basic level, others will fly through
the training.There must be real recording of a trainees experience and not just standing in front of job constructed by others for your photo taken

I am an open water instructer for BSAC I inform all my students that I am not training them to pass the next test,of which there are many,but teaching them how to DIVE in a safe and professional manner.We do not set time scales to the training,There abilities are assessed at different points in thier trainng,by an independent assessor,If they are up to standard they move on to the next section of training,If they fail, further training will be given to bring them up to standard.

Diving is similar to scaffolding in the fact that mistakes can cost the lives of yourself or others that depend on your competency.By training people to the highest standard they can achieve we can eradicate a lot of the risks involved in both diving and scaffolding.Some people will never reach the highest standard in scaffolding for various reasons.

One of the pointers of valid training is the fail rate of candidates taking the courses.Not nice for the failed student, but great for the person gaining the accreditation in his chosen field
 
Hi guys just to add more info to this debate I have attached an apprentice training plan that i recieved yesterday, as I am just about to book another one of our guys on this course. The 18 month period previously stated does not include the time spent at the training college nor the time before the training that the apprentice has been in your employment so all in all it is over two years. You would not just start a guy and put him on this course surely you would try him out labouring first. I have brought three guys through this scheme and all being a success with two at twenty year old and one at eighteen.This can be done with the proper training and supervision, just watch what jobs you put them on, make sure that they are working with someone with experience and monitor their progress. We went down this path years ago due to the poor standard of men available in our area, it means that we have men who are uncorrupted to the wicked ways of the world, they know how you think, they know what you require from them and they know what your clients want. OK they may still lack a bit of experience but how else do you get experience? remember we were all new starts once upon a time.
 

Attachments

  • Trainee Scaffolders Course Information Sheet - July 2010.doc
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Cats some good valid points

You seem to have a good training plan in operation
I still have reserversions concerning "just watch what jobs you put them on, make sure that they are working with someone with experience and monitor their progress"
This all goes out the window if they decide to leave your employ.On paper they are fully qualified but on a site working alone will they have the ability to tell the agent that his "Ideas" are not on as regards the scaffolding layout or adaptions he demands.

Fair point, Experience, only way to get it is work different jobs and locations with other scaffs over a number of years.
I would like to see a log book brought in to record the employment history,Companies,projects and training undertaken. Merchant seaman used to carry these so that when they moved from ship to ship the new skipper was aware of the crewmans history and training.
 
Rigger, thanks for your comments I understand what you are saying with regards to them leaving your employment but this also happens with they guys that are put on adult courses so what is the solution? When I say just watch I use the term very loosly, I mean hand pick their jobs you wouldn`t put them lets say on a droplift would you. I totally agree with you with regards to a log book type system which would be better than the current portfolio system that is in operation at this moment, as you know they only cover specific types of scaffolding with some being very basic. A log book with minimum two to three years work history which could be presented to future employers would show what type of work they had experience in.
 
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