pud
Well-known member
This has just been posted on the who actually put the cisrs inspection course together.
quoted from kevin34.
Just to add some more talking points.
Regarding Inspectors, it is agreed by everyone, and stipulated by HSA etc, that they must be competent so I have a few questions, and answers.
Do the people who complete a inspection training course prove competency ?
Answer: No they do not.
Do the trainers/centre/CISRS certificate them as competent ?
Answer: No they do not.
Who can prove they are competent to inspect a scaffold ?
Answer: Scaffolders.
Is it possible to design a scaffold without scaffolding background or experience ?
Answer: Yes it is.
It cannot make sense to say I must complete a minimum of 18 months training and experience to be recognised a Scaffolder but only 2 days to be recognised as a Inspector who can overule and instruct, directly or indirectly, the Scaffolder to alter a scaffold.
There is a competency unit available for inspection of scaffold within the UK NVQ system although this is seldom used. I have experience of this with a company named Safety and Access in Nottingham who, it must be said, showed a good foresight in trying to implement this award.
While looking at the earlier threads it is clear that there are some poorly informed people who may be responsible for inspection of scaffolding and a good example is where BS EN is quoted as being, "Legislation", when, it is not. BS EN is a "Code Of Practice". This type of understanding does contribute to problems at work where people constantly quote these codes of practice as legally binding. Example: My son, a Scaffolder was informed by a safety advisor that he, and his company, "MUST", use the Scaffolder's Step to install scaffolding.
Within the 2 Day Basic Scaffold Inspection training an Instructor must attempt to teach and assess;
Course and centre induction.
HASAWA
WAHR
Relevant Regs
ACOPS (There are none as these have a special place in law and do not include any for Scaffolding)
Scaffold Terminology
Scaffold Materials
Means of Access
Gin Wheels and Ropes (Should be Means of Lifting and Lowering Equipment)
Scaffold Ties
Construction Regulations (Think should be CDM Regulations now)
Recommendations for Basic Scaffolds.
Practical Inspection
Reports
This should cover the following scaffold structures;
Independent
Putlog
Birdcage
Tower
Scaffold with Beams
Protection Fans
Pavement Gantry
Loading Bay
Roof Saddle
Splay Scaffold
Roof Edge Protection
Trussout Scaffold.
Think most would agree that this means a lot of the content is only, "glossed over", and, in no way, could anyone be looked upon as Competent on completion.
Sorry this is such a long post but one more point.
Regarding the actual presentation. Any organisation who wishes to conduct a CISRS inspection training course MUST purchase this presentation and lesson plans etc for a cost of 750 for the basic and 500 for the advanced.
Whether the presentation is good or not is a matter of opinion but forcing someone to buy this when they find it unacceptable quality is wrong and seems to prove the point of Ragscaff and others that making money is more important than quality training and safety.
Sorry, one more point.
A substantial part of this presentation is copied from various sources who have provided this free of charge provided they receive proper recognition.
Some of the content was offered previously for a fee and CISRS refused the offer obviously preferring to obtain it without payment.
What does that say about CISRS ?
This is why we need organisations like SCCR. Please support them as they are the only hope.
There are far too many self serving people and organisations involved in the construction industry and it's time the people who do the work had a say.
Congratulations to all on this forum for speaking your mind and keeping us informed. Best of luck to SCCR for the future and keep up the great work.
quoted from kevin34.
Just to add some more talking points.
Regarding Inspectors, it is agreed by everyone, and stipulated by HSA etc, that they must be competent so I have a few questions, and answers.
Do the people who complete a inspection training course prove competency ?
Answer: No they do not.
Do the trainers/centre/CISRS certificate them as competent ?
Answer: No they do not.
Who can prove they are competent to inspect a scaffold ?
Answer: Scaffolders.
Is it possible to design a scaffold without scaffolding background or experience ?
Answer: Yes it is.
It cannot make sense to say I must complete a minimum of 18 months training and experience to be recognised a Scaffolder but only 2 days to be recognised as a Inspector who can overule and instruct, directly or indirectly, the Scaffolder to alter a scaffold.
There is a competency unit available for inspection of scaffold within the UK NVQ system although this is seldom used. I have experience of this with a company named Safety and Access in Nottingham who, it must be said, showed a good foresight in trying to implement this award.
While looking at the earlier threads it is clear that there are some poorly informed people who may be responsible for inspection of scaffolding and a good example is where BS EN is quoted as being, "Legislation", when, it is not. BS EN is a "Code Of Practice". This type of understanding does contribute to problems at work where people constantly quote these codes of practice as legally binding. Example: My son, a Scaffolder was informed by a safety advisor that he, and his company, "MUST", use the Scaffolder's Step to install scaffolding.
Within the 2 Day Basic Scaffold Inspection training an Instructor must attempt to teach and assess;
Course and centre induction.
HASAWA
WAHR
Relevant Regs
ACOPS (There are none as these have a special place in law and do not include any for Scaffolding)
Scaffold Terminology
Scaffold Materials
Means of Access
Gin Wheels and Ropes (Should be Means of Lifting and Lowering Equipment)
Scaffold Ties
Construction Regulations (Think should be CDM Regulations now)
Recommendations for Basic Scaffolds.
Practical Inspection
Reports
This should cover the following scaffold structures;
Independent
Putlog
Birdcage
Tower
Scaffold with Beams
Protection Fans
Pavement Gantry
Loading Bay
Roof Saddle
Splay Scaffold
Roof Edge Protection
Trussout Scaffold.
Think most would agree that this means a lot of the content is only, "glossed over", and, in no way, could anyone be looked upon as Competent on completion.
Sorry this is such a long post but one more point.
Regarding the actual presentation. Any organisation who wishes to conduct a CISRS inspection training course MUST purchase this presentation and lesson plans etc for a cost of 750 for the basic and 500 for the advanced.
Whether the presentation is good or not is a matter of opinion but forcing someone to buy this when they find it unacceptable quality is wrong and seems to prove the point of Ragscaff and others that making money is more important than quality training and safety.
Sorry, one more point.
A substantial part of this presentation is copied from various sources who have provided this free of charge provided they receive proper recognition.
Some of the content was offered previously for a fee and CISRS refused the offer obviously preferring to obtain it without payment.
What does that say about CISRS ?
This is why we need organisations like SCCR. Please support them as they are the only hope.
There are far too many self serving people and organisations involved in the construction industry and it's time the people who do the work had a say.
Congratulations to all on this forum for speaking your mind and keeping us informed. Best of luck to SCCR for the future and keep up the great work.
