Tg.20

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meercat

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As we are now working to TG.20 on our sites I have a question about system scaffolds.
If there is nothing in the manufactures guidelines concerning number of working lifts etc is this left to our professional opinions?
Obviously making sure that the structure is adequately tied in and braced.
System that I am referring too is Cuplok.

Thanks
 
TG20:08 is for Tube and fitting scaffolds, try EN 12811 i thinks.

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

System scaffolds are normally covered by Manufacturers RAMS one way out of it for them, plus a 2 day course for a scaff to get it on their card. Apologies off on a tangent...... another ASDA moment my friend.......
 
Paddy thanks for replying and I am aware that TG.20 is T&F.
Just want some clarification on Cuplok scaffolds.
So was hoping my get some info from the experience pool here.
 
Apologies Meerkat for posting the obvious, however, i dont know your background for info posting.

We are now supposed to have any system scaffs added to our cards after the appropiate training:eek: (another cashcow) so i cant really say about cuplok as i am only a T&F advanced Scaffolder for 33 years.

This isnt a dig at you my friend, its a jibe to the whole get up.

Paddy
 
Hi Meercat, there is lots in the manufacturers guide lines about the safe height of system scaffolds which can also be worked out using the Cads system. I was at a safety meeting in Inverness a few weeks back where the hse inspector informed everyone that the requirements for drawings were not restricted to t&f scaffolds and he would expect to see the same drawings for the whole job should you need to build something even the slightest bit out of the manufacturers scope. I think a few people myself included were under the illusion that using system would protect you from the clamour for drawings but it now seems that this is not the case. We are also booked in the weekend after next for the product training.:(
 
I knew that Paddy but I've not had any Guinness today.;)
 
meercat said:
As we are now working to TG.20 on our sites I have a question about system scaffolds.
If there is nothing in the manufactures guidelines concerning number of working lifts etc is this left to our professional opinions?
Obviously making sure that the structure is adequately tied in and braced.
System that I am referring too is Cuplok.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Morning Meercat,
there is more than adequate manufacturers guidelines and information available on both the correct use of and working lifts of Cuplok.
This information should I believe be made available to you by your supplier as a matter of course and requirement.
Unless you are an Engineer I'm afraid your professional standing will not help you if you cannot obtain the information from either the supplier of manufacturer, you will need to employ the services of an engineer to design your scaffold.
My advice would be to go to your local Harsco or Generation and hire whatever Cuplok you need and ask for the relevant information to safely erect it.
 
I just had a wee squint at our user manual and to be honest it reads pretty much the same as tg20, maximum height is dependent on a lot of the usual factors, tie spacing, lift height wind loading and foot tied or not, but the maximum given is 30m incorporating 2 working lifts although it seems the 8 leg stair tower has a safe working height of 50m but comes with a warning if fully loaded it exceeds the leg capacity. I might have to go and lie down to work that one out.:embarrest:
 
aom said:
I just had a wee squint at our user manual and to be honest it reads pretty much the same as tg20, maximum height is dependent on a lot of the usual factors, tie spacing, lift height wind loading and foot tied or not, but the maximum given is 30m incorporating 2 working lifts although it seems the 8 leg stair tower has a safe working height of 50m but comes with a warning if fully loaded it exceeds the leg capacity. I might have to go and lie down to work that one out.:embarrest:
Click to expand...

Hi AOM
you are correct it is much the same as TG20 as both were based on EN12811.
The number of working liftes defined therein is 2. Back to the Engineer for anything diff.
The stair tower, another f***ing story :eek:
 
I thought maybe I had read it wrong as it seems a bit strange but a good one at the end of the course when they ask if anyone has any questions.:idea:
 
If the 2 working lifts are like T & F, then the loading are 100% on 1 lift and only 50% on the 2nd lift.:unsure:
 
IDH said:
We design in Cuplok and if you apply the same general rules as T&F you will come a cropper! That's is not to say it will fall over, but there is no data for the bracing and tieing when erected to TG20 rules. If the checker knows the cuplok rules you'll be all over it making adaptions all day long.

If you're hiring suggest you get a design thrown in. If you own, then I would recommend you get a Cuplok designer - could chance it with a normal designer but suggest you get them to idemnify any design adaptions you have to make!
Click to expand...

We are not designing cuplok at all IDH, just passing comment that the user guide reads like TG20 with the tie pattern and the same looking (to a layman anyway) formula to work out the safe height without the need for a design. I build all our's to the manufacturers guide and use the Cads to prove the safe height to anyone who might need to know. Where are you based?
 
Surely anything over 8 metres needs to be designed these days.
 
T.ANIMAL said:
If the 2 working lifts are like T & F, then the loading are 100% on 1 lift and only 50% on the 2nd lift.:unsure:
Click to expand...

To be honest T.Annimal that was just another fact I assumed but after another quick scan of the user guide I can't seem to see it anywhere. They do however use the exact same load class tables as TG20 which I suppose is just to make it easier for the user to make a direct comparison with t&f. All I can really find which I was only partly aware is that the normal 2.5 bays can easily be made to 3kn just by additional mid transoms, other than that it's all UDL and leg loads.

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------
T.ANIMAL said:
Surely anything over 8 metres needs to be designed these days.
Click to expand...

I hope not.:eek:
 
Im only a Part 1 these days, what do i know, lol oh i have got till end of the year with my Advanced Ecitb mickey mouse,cornflake back of the packet ticket, so what do i know, tagging all day to day, tag man on long weekend off and told my site manager, 10 jobs on site should have a drawing, he was well puzzled, thats a lagger for you, doing 2 chimney stacks 30 ft long, 8ft wide, 6 to 7 lifts, said should have drawing, to show ties, and cause of width and height, he said cant you tie at the top, where there is a ledge, basically a lip tie, went on his laptop and showed him that one on here, bout Oxford Street, he turned round and said ours hasnt got sheeting on, last few jobs we have been doing, they are having to put ranch boards on for security reasons, stop anyone climbing up the job and getting onto a nuke site, they dont realise that is like sheeting and has to be designed for tie patterns as well, mind you security must be shiiitte, cameras everywhere, and armed police, but have to chain our ladder beams up just in case once they get in they might use them to escape, i said good luck to them if they want to stand a 21 galvy up and climb up them:nuts:
 
I though system scaff designs had to comply with BS EN 12810:idea:

you would think that SGB would have it on their downloads:(
 
They do have to comply with BSEN 12810 and the instructions must tell you how high you can build it before design and how many lifts you can board it. With aom and meercat we are talking about genlok. The book should have it all in. I've seen the book and a lot of it is based on TG20 tables but it's still readable
 
Hi IDH,

I think Simian maybe picked up on the difference as I am talking about Genlok and I have both the user guide and TG20 in front of me and they both look the same with the only difference being the sway brace is shown on the user guide between tie points to link them and they also haven't bothered with C+F. Unless I have been reading both manuals wrong for which there is every possability they still look very similar to me.
 
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