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gasby

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just a quick short thread to see your perspective on Haki system.The way our industry is moving into deepshit Nasc/TG20-10 bol****s,(cant fart without advanced guard rail)this system solves a lot of issues,thinking about investing in it ?but its a big step to sell alot of t/f to buy this stuff thats not cheap,but the money you can save in labour & transport could make it work .My question is as anyone took this step ?if so can it save money long term...ta
 
I know Haki very well, a very good system (hence the snide copies) They also have a very good beam system should you be doing roofs etc.
It is a big step moving from T&F to system but it is the long term solution and there are very few system manufacturers who put in the effort to improve the product and the safety that Haki do.
They have one of the best teams I have ever had the pleasure of working along side.
Their training is great there technical back up is second to none.
When I had (self induced) problems with the system at Hemmel, they sent their team out the same day to put it right.

Kick the snid stuff into touch well done Haki
regards
Alan
 
Hi Gasby,

System scaffolds have obvious advantages over T/F however, having owned and run a street / site firm in London we could not have survived using system only.

Take Trad for example, very heavy into Layher but still use T/F on a lot of their jobs.

Try 30% system to start with and see where your balance is. NEVER abandon T/F it is best system invented.
 
It depends on what type of work your looking at...
System is great for straight runs and simple designs, but its not too adaptable. I dont think ive ever used a System (and ive used most) that doesn't need some type of Tube and Fitting added to it, whether is be in the form of ties or platforms to make the System accessible.

System Scaffolding also doesn't have the same life span as Tube and Fitting.
Tubes can be dropped and thrown all over, but care is needed when throwing System about, as dents can f.uck things up.


Its a tough one.
Maybe buy a small amount of a certain System (I find that Layher is the best) and use it for a while to see how things work out and how your Scaffolders find it?
 
Alan Reade said:
I know Haki very well, a very good system (hence the snide copies) They also have a very good beam system should you be doing roofs etc.
It is a big step moving from T&F to system but it is the long term solution and there are very few system manufacturers who put in the effort to improve the product and the safety that Haki do.
They have one of the best teams I have ever had the pleasure of working along side.
Their training is great there technical back up is second to none.
When I had (self induced) problems with the system at Hemmel, they sent their team out the same day to put it right.

Kick the snide stuff into touch well done Haki
regards
Alan
Click to expand...

As an after thought SGB have had Cuplok for over 30 years but still use around 15% T&F. That Said SGB have also been through a large number of different systems trying and disguarding them as quickley as they appear.
When SGB started into Cuplok the had far too many components and tried to narrow them down with time.
If you go for a system whichever you choose, stick with the main core products and leave the knobs and whistles until you are certain of which direction you wish to take
regards
Alan
 
I cant see how Cup-Lok is still being used... Its dangerous.
Over time the cups crack and split, its difficult to pull over/chain up and its a b@stard to stack and carry...

Also, how can the HSE approve of a System where once you open up 1 'Lok' there are tubes with only 1 end left holding them in the Cup, as 1 'Lok' often closes around several other tubes?

Theres diffidently better Systems out there.
 
System for sites and tube for the streets! I hate haki, cuplock is the best and layer is highly rated amongst the hammer brigade!

Systems are best for core work, lift shafts and risers! A job will go up in a 10th of the time compared to tube in this eg.
 
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Jason-Gibbs said:
I cant see how Cup-Lok is still being used... Its dangerous.
Over time the cups crack and split, its difficult to pull over/chain up and its a b@stard to stack and carry...

Also, how can the HSE approve of a System where once you open up 1 'Lok' there are tubes with only 1 end left holding them in the Cup, as 1 'Lok' often closes around several other tubes?

Theres diffidently better Systems out there.
Click to expand...

Hi Jason
Cuplok has been around for 30+ years now and is widley used around the world, I would guess more so than any other system.
It is without a doubt not the be all and end of scaffolding but was developed with the specific intention to use less qualified labour. It has been proved to be a more profitable and speedier form of scaffolding than T&F.
Dont get me wrong fella I am all about T&F and if you look at my photo albums you will see most are in T&F but that being said I have also used cuplok for many years without problem.
Sure Cuplok breaks if you mistreat it but so does everything else. The trick is to treat it like you bought it not like you stole it.
Stay well
regards
Alan
 
Jason - cuplock is king all the other systems are **** mate
 
cuplok is good for being lightweight, galvanized and quick to erect.
haki was new to me when offshore, new words, beam riders, turkey legs etc.
you will always need a stock of t/f
 
Gasby
"but the money you can save in labour & transport "

The saving on labour has always been the driving force in the quest for a system scaffold that can duplicate the flexibility of T&F.

On jobs that suit the system being employed, it can out perform T&F in output rates..and make substantial savings on labour

I have always found system best when used for one trade or operation,the problems start when you try to modify it for other trades or applications,from your initial structure

The initial cost of system is high, and bad handling will result in large capitol losses,not to mention theft
 
gasby said:
just a quick short thread to see your perspective on Haki system.The way our industry is moving into deepshit Nasc/TG20-10 bol****s,(cant fart without advanced guard rail)this system solves a lot of issues,thinking about investing in it ?but its a big step to sell alot of t/f to buy this stuff thats not cheap,but the money you can save in labour & transport could make it work .My question is as anyone took this step ?if so can it save money long term...ta
Click to expand...
must admit, we use haki stairtowers, they are good, but don't like it for general scaffold runs.We use Layher all-round 70% and T&F 30%. One thing very noticeable though, we get no system nicked, but always losing T&F, it's easier to hide with the rest of the gear that they have nicked. not everybody uses a system, so we can spot it easier and tends to be left alone.Also a lot less components to deal with.We need less drawings and calcs too as we can use manufacturer's standard designs.Don't sell your T&F though, you'll get bog all for it and it'll cost twice as much if you want to buy more the way prices are going.We took the step with system about 17yrs ago buying a bit at a a time, as you say it is expensive, and have invested in it ever since. We have never looked back.It would be nice to have just system ,but as the lads have already said on here, you'll always need a bit of T&F so don't get rid of it.
 
Rigger said:
Gasby
"but the money you can save in labour & transport "

The saving on labour has always been the driving force in the quest for a system scaffold that can duplicate the flexibility of T&F.

On jobs that suit the system being employed, it can out perform T&F in output rates..and make substantial savings on labour

I have always found system best when used for one trade or operation,the problems start when you try to modify it for other trades or applications,from your initial structure

The initial cost of system is high, and bad handling will result in large capitol losses,not to mention theft
Click to expand...

Good Post Rigger.
 
Try Layher allround.Theres a good market for Layher compared to other systems out there.More diverse and used in many sectors Event,shoring,support,aircraft,street work and industrial.Do the others hold any ground in these?
The markets changing and you are right to look at options

Good luck
 
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