Prosecution Of Main Contractors

Tufty

Tufty

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Hi All
Now I have a meeting with the HSE regarding competence of contractors after a routine visit on a job in Luton and TG20 issues.
I am trying to make them see the problem lays at the feet of the one with the cheque book!!!
Can you please post or Personal Message if you prefer any scaffold related prosecutions or letters, notices etc apart from MK collapse & Cardiff collapse please.
Rigger and IanX you must have some examples???
Regards Tufty
 
No prosecutions or improvement orders to date Tufty but it's a constant battle with mc. In any other service industry the customer is king and always right but why in ours are we constantly asked to do things we know are not right. The most recent idiotic example was site agent asked me to dismantle one elevation on 4 storey timber frame block of flats so he could start under ground services, when I informed him there would be a charge for additional buttressing he thought I was taking the mick. I advised he get his h&s man out the office to check the info I was giving him was correct and as I knew the guy had a scaffold back ground I knew he would back me up but no, I couldn't believe it when he recommended I take it down with no additional ties to go in, I felt like a right **** and in the end just refused.
 
Another one is the jobs I'm pricing around tanks needing by design Buttresses and Kentledge at regular intervals, other massive contractors getting away with no buttresses at all. When pulling these huge clients as they are choosing the cheapest prices, they insist they can see from quotes what we have included and why but it's not their problem, it's the contractor!!! What can you do??
 
Done it mate, but they are getting away with excuse that the scaffold is NOT free standing. Yet if you go to a designer he says different and if you had a collapse, your in deep do do
 
Same story here, contractors adamant that scaffolds are basic which they are but only if the right tie pattern can be used.
 
Tufty said:
Hi All
Now I have a meeting with the HSE regarding competence of contractors after a routine visit on a job in Luton and TG20 issues.
I am trying to make them see the problem lays at the feet of the one with the cheque book!!!
Can you please post or Personal Message if you prefer any scaffold related prosecutions or letters, notices etc apart from MK collapse & Cardiff collapse please.
Rigger and IanX you must have some examples???
Regards Tufty
Click to expand...

The three things that we always have trouble with are
1. Nowhere in the program is there any mention or allowance of Scaffolding (The jobs going t*ts up from here) :sad:
2.You cant tie to the building! (So much for CDM):mad:
3. Undermining or close excavations
 
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topperoff said:
Another one is the jobs I'm pricing around tanks needing by design Buttresses and Kentledge at regular intervals, other massive contractors getting away with no buttresses at all. When pulling these huge clients as they are choosing the cheapest prices, they insist they can see from quotes what we have included and why but it's not their problem, it's the contractor!!! What can you do??
Click to expand...

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Oh I have a classic example of this. In March of this year I was at a scaffold meeting at one of the refinerys I visit on a regular basis. I'd been asked to take a look at a splay scaffold around a 100m storage tank. The first thing that stood out was 8 lifts of scaffold top lift sheeted (on the inside) and no buttress's. In my report I had asked the scaffold company to provide us with a drawing which they didn't respond too. So in the scaffold meeting I again asked them to supply us with a design drawing. The scaffolding supervisor looked at me and said we don't need a design , this is the way we've always built them. So I asked him what was holding the scaffold up , to which he replied its butted into the tank.:D. In the end we ended up having to ring their H&S manager who agreed a design was needed. It took 12 men another 4 weeks to install the buttress's required. This is one of the larger companies who should know better
 
Tufty
Ask the buffoon is he has ever heard of the "The Golden Rule"
answer....."He who has the gold makes the rules"

CDM places the duty of care on the client,

(then on the CDM co-ordinator if appointed by the client as an agent/go-between,)

It then comes to the Priciple Contractor who signs the contract with the client
The PC is responsable for the employing of sub-contractors and the build phase of the project and by law he must make sure they are competant and comply with all legislation

follow link some prosecution, must go crust to earn :cool:

Search HSE website
 
XxIANxX said:
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Oh I have a classic example of this. In March of this year I was at a scaffold meeting at one of the refinerys I visit on a regular basis. I'd been asked to take a look at a splay scaffold around a 100m storage tank. The first thing that stood out was 8 lifts of scaffold top lift sheeted (on the inside) and no buttress's. In my report I had asked the scaffold company to provide us with a drawing which they didn't respond too. So in the scaffold meeting I again asked them to supply us with a design drawing. The scaffolding supervisor looked at me and said we don't need a design , this is the way we've always built them. So I asked him what was holding the scaffold up , to which he replied its butted into the tank.:D. In the end we ended up having to ring their H&S manager who agreed a design was needed. It took 12 men another 4 weeks to install the buttress's required. This is one of the larger companies who should know better
Click to expand...


Cape are fookers for it mate, was it them?

Rigger said:
Tufty
Ask the buffoon is he has ever heard of the "The Golden Rule"
answer....."He who has the gold makes the rules"

CDM places the duty of care on the client,

(then on the CDM co-ordinator if appointed by the client as an agent/go-between,)

It then comes to the Priciple Contractor who signs the contract with the client
The PC is responsable for the employing of sub-contractors and the build phase of the project and by law he must make sure they are competant and comply with all legislation

follow link some prosecution, must go crust to earn :cool:

Search HSE website
Click to expand...
 
be very surprised if it was cape the last one we did had more butrices than scaffold
and are checked as the the work progreses.as for butting the tank for a wedge yeah.not a ******* tie.
 
Thoughts so Ian, I think I know you too but I will keep tight lipped lol.
 
Here’s a good example of the HSE prosecuting the PC instead of the sub –contracting company that the late Mr. Walsh worked for.

18/12/2008
Taylor Woodrow prosecution highlights construction dangers
A fatal incident during the construction of the main public building at the National Assembly for Wales in Cardiff, has prompted the Health and Safety Executive to repeat messages about minimising workplace risks to employees and contractors.
Taylor Woodrow Construction Ltd, the company responsible for managing the Assembly’s Senedd building project pleaded guilty to a charge under Section 3(1) of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 at a Cardiff Crown Court hearing on 16 December. They were fined £200,000 and ordered to pay costs of £71,400.
Supervisor, John Walsh died after a wall collapsed, throwing him from his ladder in March 2004. Employed by sub-contractors, Ferson Construction Services Ltd, Mr Walsh who came from Bristol, was responsible for building a blockwork supporting wall at the Senedd. This included a cavity between the wall and the concrete frame of the main structure for insulation and damp-proofing. As Mr Walsh was working to fill the cavity, the wall surged outwards owing to pressure, jettisoning him backwards.
Despite Taylor Woodrow Construction recognising risks before the contract began, HSE inspector Alun Williams said the company had failed to properly manage the risk posed by working at height and by the pressure that the wall experienced during the process.
"There are recognised procedures in the construction industry for backfilling and cavity insulation which would have prevented the wall from surging outwards," said Alun Williams.
"The use of ladders was meant to be strictly controlled on-site, yet one was in use despite a method statement to the contrary."
"The company failed to ensure the method statement was followed and in doing so, failed to manage the activities of others."
NOTE
Section 3(1) of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 states: "It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby, are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.
 
I they did, but the complaints I have made over the years over a certain company over this type of scaffold. I even spoke to their designer who did not know nothing about it lol. But the main client look at price until something happens then back track. You and I know tanks need buttresses, the lads think its over the top but a design is a design and lots of factors go into it.
 
topperoff said:
Cape are fookers for it mate, was it them?
Click to expand...
I called the HSE yesterday as I was driving through Buckingham , a Northampton scaffolding company were erecting a 6 lift fully boarded scaffold around the old Jail in the town centre, no ppe on any of the lads, no ties, no barriers preventing public access. The HSE guy on the complaint line must have been about 7 years old and didn't have a clue what I was talking about.
The same scaffolding company undercut us on another contract by 50% ,they told the client we will build the scaffold to the design you have issued, when I went to look , 8 lift fully boarded scaffold, monoflexed not a single tie, gaps in the boards, single handrails ,no stop end toe boards handrails jacked into the concrete frame. I pulled up the site manager and said "this isn't what I had priced to erect mate ,this is cr*p" he just said "yea but you were 50% dearer" Like Tufty says its all dictated by surveyors who couldn't give a toss about designs, health and safety.
The HSE only ever want to get involved if they can prosecute somebody or somebody is killed or seriously hurt. After the scaffold collapse in Milton keynes Buckinghamshire you would have thought they would have jumped at the chance to take a look at what was going on the the town centre of Buckingham...Not so.
 
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