Milton Keynes Collapse

Idiot doesn't do us any favours "scaffolders can design basic scaffolds" i have put up about fifty temporary roofs and not one of them has come down or been designed.
 
I know there is an issue with this case but whats the beef with sub contractors?

The statement in the video sounds like you will be in trouble because you used sub contractors!! Emplying they are all bad & cannot do the job!

A lot of firms are getting their staff to go self employed, a lot of big firms use agencies or labour only whats the problem with the scaffolders?

Have they not all got CISRS!!!


Ragscaff
 
looks to me more like tendering for work at the expense of working class blokes,

slagging the work off of blokes who may not have been given adequate training by the training providers/inspectors,

massive conflict of interest here for me but these training providers should realise,sending blokes out with part 2 believing they can do pull tests wheras really they cannot could come back on the trainers themselves,

wonder if this was done by part 2 or had an advanced on it,

either way a training provider then turning up at a health and safety expo slagging the work off better be carefull the blokes werent trained at his centre,if they were he better make sure the fault with the job doesnt lead straight back to his centres training or lack of !
 
Would'nt it be great to live in a perfect world where we all get paid to do everything by the book...
 
Forgot to mention that they used several tubes to make one ledger in several places on that job.

Trainning was always bad even back in 2006, when i got my part 1 i was the only "scaffolder" in the class, similar story in 2007 when i returned.

At the end of the day the nature of the market place for scaffolding is why accidents happen.
To many companys cutting each up on price, employing any old tom **** or harry giving them a ticket to forfila quota on big jobs.

Also too many boys out there who go in for the cash, dont have a bit of intertest in there job they just want to put something up and get to the pub.

Im not saying go crazy **** all over ya scaffolds but take some pride.
 
Have they not all got CISRS!!!


Ragscaff

That might just be the contributing factor, is the CISRS course up to scratch are we being trained to erect scaffolds properly by the training centres. I know of a training centre that up till last month was still teaching to BS 5973 :eek: .
 
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A lot of the blame lies with the two day super inspectors:(how can just anybody take a two day course and be competent to inspect a job of that size?how would they know that the tie anchors were suspect?that there's no counter weight in a one bay return?that by stripping the loading bay their taking away its only form of buttress,that by loading the job with the stripped materials their making the job top heavy,that a single row of outside standards can buckle under great weight stress?all rellevant points to the experienced scaff,but even if the inspections had been kept up to date by the two day guy's,would they have had the experience to pick up on these points and take the nescesary remedies?these two day courses are aimed at site agents,so they can sign the tag......and save MONEY,a serious rethink of this is needed NOW:mad:
 
I know one of the agents on the job! He said painters had removed ties unsupervised and that time restraints were against the scaffolder on dismantling the job, where is the point of unloading 2.8 tonne of materials if there not being used!!!
 
A lot of the blame lies with the two day super inspectors:(how can just anybody take a two day course and be competent to inspect a job of that size?how would they know that the tie anchors were suspect?that there's no counter weight in a one bay return?that by stripping the loading bay their taking away its only form of buttress,that by loading the job with the stripped materials their making the job top heavy,that a single row of outside standards can buckle under great weight stress?all rellevant points to the experienced scaff,but even if the inspections had been kept up to date by the two day guy's,would they have had the experience to pick up on these points and take the nescesary remedies?these two day courses are aimed at site agents,so they can sign the tag......and save MONEY,a serious rethink of this is needed NOW:mad:

yeah but your qualified!! coz tickets make you competent!!!! iam sick of this its about time we stopped all this bullsh!t and they stopped surfing money on scaffold industry!! and refresher tickets!! i know were going over olde ground again but jesus!!!! when is it going to end you shareholders are screwing us from week to week!!! i used to get up in the morning and look forward to work. now i look at the money at the end of the week!! instead of the crack we used to have at work
 
For all the new training courses and money that scaffolders and firms have paid i have not seen alot of improvement in the industry.
 
yeah but your qualified!! coz tickets make you competent!!!! iam sick of this its about time we stopped all this bullsh!t and they stopped surfing money on scaffold industry!! and refresher tickets!! i know were going over olde ground again but jesus!!!! when is it going to end you shareholders are screwing us from week to week!!! i used to get up in the morning and look forward to work. now i look at the money at the end of the week!! instead of the crack we used to have at work

Dico i support the ecitb lads,my dig was at any old brickie or joiner or anyone can go on a two day scaffold inspection course no questions asked,and as ian says in the video,these were inspectors from one of these courses,before the inspections ceased altogether,so does their two day ticket make them competent?i think not,i,like you,have many years in the game,and i would like to think that it is experience that makes us competent,not a two day ticket,having said that,there's got to be some form of proof of competence,and i have no solution to that one,i am sorry if you took my post as an attack on ticketless scaffs,it was'nt.
 
The hole CISRS training criteria. At the moment the trainee spends to much time in the classroom and not another time in the training area.
 
bigfish no offence taken mate!!!! i did a job the other week for a siemens site. they honnoured the ecitb ticket and my mates who also had a ecitb ticket!!!! then my mate went and done the cisrs ticket part 1!!!! when we turned up next time siemens said sorry you got a part 1 cisrs ticket your ave to work with the ecitb lad whos advanced !!!! then when after i done my part 1 we went back. a month or so later with our part 1 cisrs!!! i then had to work with a part 2 cisrs scaffolder who i taught over the years. that woz 21 and i woz only allowed on the ground as i had a part 1 and the ecitb wosent valid the next time what a shambles!!! these top clients dont give a monkey about tickets only what tickets are valid at the time when youve had scaffolders in the game 25 30 years with a ecitb ticket they should of been swapped for the cisrs ticket dont know what the average age on the scaffolders forum is but most ecitb lads are too olde and have said bollo!ks and are out the game
 
I agree with what Ian says , the job was badly run and maintained.
Except his comments bout subbies, there aint nothing wrong with labour only subbies , i was one for years , the problem is the subbies where left to there own devices unsupervised by the main scaffold contractor and lads being what they are they cut corners. The way i see it is it boils down to money the subbies under pressure to get it down , the main contractor failing to have the scaffold inspected properly and failing to watch for the cladders over loading , how where they going to clear there gear when the loading bay had been struck ?
Was it mandatory to have a design in 2006 , although a job of that size should have been designed anyway.

Dico i think its a disgrace the way the ECITB lads have been treated and it only means there are less good scaffolders in the game now , there should have been some kind of a switch over they could have done for them , like The Accessed Route of Entry they used to do up until about 6 years ago
 
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