make it illegal,now.

numbnuts

numbnuts

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
652
Reaction score
0
Location
rawtenstall
just a suggestion,but really peed off with roofers,brickies,joiners,all cutting stuff on boards,going through and knackering the boards,does anyone at hse,ever go up on jobs and see this kind of work,and not think about the danger that is being done.if it weakens the boards ,and someone falls,who is liable.can we as one of the construction industrys most put up on trades,not get it made illegal to do this.make it so they have to cut on floor,or have a cutting table or something like.:mad:
 
numbnuts said:
just a suggestion,but really peed off with roofers,brickies,joiners,all cutting stuff on boards,going through and knackering the boards,does anyone at hse,ever go up on jobs and see this kind of work,and not think about the danger that is being done.if it weakens the boards ,and someone falls,who is liable.can we as one of the construction industrys most put up on trades,not get it made illegal to do this.make it so they have to cut on floor,or have a cutting table or something like.:mad:
Click to expand...

Unfortunatly we are struggling to get the removal of ties & unauthorised adaptions made into a reportable incident which makes it a legal responsibility of the site agent if anything goes wrong.

Only scaffolders can adapt, alter, erect or dismantle scaffolding yet if anyone else does touch it nothings done. If you have not got your harnmess on or are not carrying the 20 tonne of safety kit you need you are stopped from working!!

Thats a scaffolders life at the moment!!

Trying to change it but it won't happen over night :sad:
 
We had a principle contractors safety man attack us for every single low risk fault he could find, and written precautionary measures to go with every fault he found, and we had that for months. On one site with this company i discovered a lift shaft re-erected by a european labourer, the other site i found ties all removed by foreign plasterers. I rang this so could professional safety manager and told him, it had to stop and i wanted written procautionary measures put in place to stop these untrained site operatives from carrying out all these ilegal activities. I was immediately barred from all their sites, when i threatened to take things further, i was told by the man i worked for they were good customers and he would deal with it from there on, which he didnt. Two days later there he was again pulling us on minute gaps in toeboards, you all know that us sub contracting scaffolders are to blame for all health and safety on site, and that scaffolding is the easiest thing to pull by know fuckall H&S inspectors, and no matter how much you argue with them, YOU AINT GONNA WIN.
 
In Almost 30 Years In This Industry I Have Never Seen Things As Cocked Up Health And Safety Wise Iv Actually Worked On Sites That Havent Got An Accident Book But Woe-Betide You If You Dont Have Safety Specs
 
im not after winning anything,i just want the whole site rules to apply to one and all,not just making us the patsy all the time.i have 23 years of scaffolding experience behind me,and right now i dont want to do this any more,maybe this year will make me an ex scaff.site rules are there for a reason.why is it only us that has to abide with them.:mad:
 
We had a Improvement notice, served on us by a HSE Inspector, for 'Scarred Boards' through the use of Rotary disc cutters being used directly on the working platform. Also for a couple of unbanded boards, where i must admit those pressed in ones, once they come loose i rip them off.

550 brand new boards 2 days later, and a big pile of board ends to check the rest of the scaffolds.

However, 2 years down the line, the tossers still cut direct on the platform if we are not about:mad: even though it is now a disciplinary offence,on our company policy.
 
Not 100% sure Paddy but I did not think it was a legal requirement to have board ends banded. Seem to recall when I did my scaff course last year that the instructor told me that. It was along the lines of the fact that boards should not be painted as it can hide defects etc. but bands are not a legal requirement.
 
Hooping Irons may not be a Statutory Requirement, however, they are a B.S. requirement are they not ? and part of the Manufacturers Quality Assurance ?---can any one expand...

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

Paddy M8, I remember you posted on sacrificial pieces of timber when cutting on Boards...
 
Aye Garry mate,the 'She Devil' from the HSE had been on our site with a Trainee inspector. the concensus was that she was learning him how to serve a I N. later on we found out he had served 2 on another contractors site, later on that day.

Not that i am saying our job was the dogs dangly bits to beat all other jobs. however, it allways seems like the big companies that get shat on.
 
Try TG5:10 for requirements on boards. BS2482:2009 moved the goal posts again. As for subbies chopping things up on our boards they are probably in breach of the working places regs. not that that helps when you cant charge the contractor for damage, and if you can he wont pay you.
 
Paddy M8

Remember when we spoke of Deputy Inspectors Paddy ?---perhaps it is time to re-boot the discussion---perhaps we could have our own Guys to police our Industry with limited Improvement and Prohibition powers, by limited, I reffer to Limited to our Industry---Specialist Powers for the Scaffolding Industry after all we have enough expertise within our own ranks---we have Special Constables with limited powers within the Criminal Justice System ( I met a few during a night oot LOLooo ;))---with a forthcoming HSE Meeting pending is there any room for manoeuvre on this one do you think ???. I know that Policing of our Industry has big concerns and implications. your thought Paddy M8 ???

Gar...
 
Damage to scaffold boards is illegal

I must have heard it being said over a thousand times before “It should be illegal for anyone to misuse scaffolding equipment on site”. I would not want to point the finger at any particular trade, but normally the scaffold boards are always in pretty good condition before the roof is erected and then, just like magic loads of grooves and saw cuts seem to appear in the scaffold boards overnight, why is it then the the scaffolders always gets the blame?

Well it’s been going on for too long now and those persons responsible need to be made to pay for the damages caused.

It’s always been illegal to interfere or misuse scaffolding, Section 8 of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 makes it criminal offence to intentionally or recklessly interfere with or misuse anything provided in the interests of health, safety or welfare.

Those persons who misuse the boards are committing a criminal offence, it needs to stop and it needs to stop now.

Site managers and supervisors who allow the misuse scaffolding are also committing a criminal offence, Section 7 (a) of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 - It shall be the duty of every employee while at work—
(a) to take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and of other persons who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work;
That means that failing to stop the misuse of the scaffolding is an omission at work. And is a breach of the regulations.

We must all ensure that our quotations includes a clause stating that the client or principle contractor is responsible for your scaffolding on their site and they must reimburse you for any damage caused by other trades.

We have all got to pull together on this one. We are always being told that we are in breach of one regulation or other, It’s about time we gave them a taste of their own medicine and pointed out some of their failings.

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------

Banding of Scaffold Boards by Ken Cain

Regulation 7 - states the following – “Selection of work equipment for working at height.
(2) An employer shall select work equipment for work at height which –

(a) has characteristics including dimensions which –

(i) are appropriate to the nature of the work to be performed and the foreseeable loadings; and

(ii) allow passage without risk; and

(b) is in other respects the most suitable work equipment, having regard in particular to the purposes’ specified in regulation 6.”

Right OK then what does it mean?

The law says we must use the “most suitable work equipment”

It means that we need to ensure that our equipment is up to the minimum standard and the minimum standard for scaffold boards is BS 2482:2009.

If there was an accident on the scaffold because you failed to use “most suitable work equipment” ie boards not conforming to BS 2482 you would be in serious trouble.

When the regulations state “most suitable work equipment” it does mean equipment that meets the British Standards.

Right then, what about banding of the boards is that law?

BS 2482:2009 – 6.2.2 – 38 mm thick boards

End bands shall be made from zinc-coated mild steel conforming to BS EN 10143, with a thickness of not less than 0.6 mm. the width of the end bands shall not be less than 20 mm and not greater than the thickness of the board. They shall extend for a minimum of 150 mm along the edge of the board.

In the forward of BS 2482:2009 it states that guidance on the use of scaffold boards is given in TG20:08 and also BS EN 12811.

In a court of law the judge would probably tell you that legally all scaffold boards would have to comply with BS 2482 and they would all have to be banded. Unless of course you had a board that was superior to the British Standard.

Ken Cain
 
This is a Criminal offence not a civil
and the HSE acting on behalf of the police are warranted to charge offenders.

Section 8 of the Health and Safety at Work Etc Act,

The act clearly states “Everyone has a duty not to interfere with or misuse anything provided in the interests of health and safety or welfare, as a result of legal requirements.
 
paddy carr said:
Once again a excellent post by Ken Cain.

Cheers Ken
Click to expand...

Sorry Paddy how is that an excellent post, give me half hour and ill download any legislation and british standard you like. We all know what regulation applies and if we dont we should, we all know what a court of law will decide. The question here should be which youl find hard to download is how do you stop it when;
Threaten the PC with legal action and youll lose all their work
You may hold the same H&S accreditation as the PC, but youre a subby hes the PC, hes right youre wrong.
If you want their work, you do as they say not the other way round. At the end of the day its a buisness and its all about money, and for the price of a board, and before someone downloads the accident costs of someone falling through that board I KNOW. But is any company going to take their client to court over cutting through one board, and then prove it never come out the yard like that. Ive battled for years with these people when theve excavated under the scaffold, took ties out, put up there own scaffolds etc. And thrown all mr cains legislation at them, and doesnt count for a dickie, unless youre prepared to lose their work and every other big contractors work that get wind of how you took action against the other one. Sorry chaps we are scaffolders so im affraid its PUT UP AND SHUT UP.
 
hello mate, talking of heath& safty on a site not so long ago where there where contractors on site wearing turbans, but nothing said to them but let them catch you without your hard hat on and you get the riot act . How can a turban replace the safty of a hard hat!!!

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

hello to you all, talking of heath& safty on a site not so long ago where there where contractors on site wearing turbans, but nothing said to them but let them catch you without your hard hat on and you get the riot act . How can a turban replace the safty of a hard hat!!!
 
Well said Poledancer, It's ok talking about the legislation and all that. but at the end off the day the average roofer, roofers labourer, brickie, and so on, DOES NOT GIVE A FLYING F@CK about any off that. They just want to get their job done the easy way, get paid and go home, If we say owt we are just moaning, like poledancer say either its put up and shut up.
 
Put up or shut up - dont give up

In 1959 before subbies were thought of, there was only one way to do a job, and that was the proper way, of course there weren’t many regulations around in those days and the main contractor or client didn’t have much of a clue about safe scaffolding, so doing it the proper way then, didn’t call for a lot of expertise. There were no 7 day inspections of the scaffold. Some of the ladders were fabricated out of bits of old wood, not many people knew what a guard rail was and a tie was something which you used to put around your neck when you went to church.

I still hear older scaffolders talk about the GOOD OLD DAYS. What good old days!!

When you get older you only try to remember the good days, because the bad days were so horrific, that you blot them out of your mind.

I’ll tell you what happened in the good old days?

In the fifties and sixties people that worked at height suffered some appalling injuries, not to mention the fatalities on a regular basis.

I’ve really been lucky in my life so far, although I’ve had my fair share of accidents in the past and I’ve been on sites where people havn’t been so lucky and it’s given me night mares.

Although safety standards are better then they were, we are still having the accidents, which goes to prove that we are still not doing enough.

That’s why I will never give up my fight to make the industry safer, and as for SHUTTING UP. No way. I’ll always put up before I shut up. Ken Cain
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom