Ledger bracing removal on working lifts?

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Hello,

Can anyone confirm that it is acceptable to remove ledger bracing on a working lift (timer frame scaffold) as long as the bracing remains in place in the lifts above and below?

Not got access to TG20:08 to be able to check.

Many thanks

Stuart.
 
Ledger bracing Removal

Hi Stuart

Welcome to the forum

It is possible to remove the ledger braces, but it must be managed and controlled on site.

For low level timber framed houses it should not be an issue. but for higher buildings it may become a problem on leg loads and stability.

I will scan the relevant pages and send to Maggie to forward to you.

All the best

Chris eng:)
 
Erm....If this is a scaffold in the UK then no, you can not remove them unless you have a specific design to show this. TG20:08 is explicit in this (there was an addendum released in 2009 I think it was). The old 5973 allowed for the removal of it, but this is no longer permitted.
 
Is there not a consession that it can be changed to plan bracing,but only to the working lift..
 
Removal of ledger braces

Hi

You can remove ledger braces as per section 10, 41.1 and 41.2 of TG20:08, but this needs to be carefully managed on site. The ledger braces need to be removed and replaced progressivelly.

The guides recommends that all scaffolds have ledger braces to all lifts, but does not exclude the removal of ledger braces.

I would attach the relevant section of the document but not sure about copyright even for one page.

Hope this helps

All the best

Chris Eng:)
 
Chris could you not replace the brace with a transom on doubles on on the standard one lift at a time ?
 
Act On Group said:
Hello,

Can anyone confirm that it is acceptable to remove ledger bracing on a working lift (timer frame scaffold) as long as the bracing remains in place in the lifts above and below?

Not got access to TG20:08 to be able to check.

Many thanks

Stuart.
Click to expand...

As Chris states, yes you can, only the lift with the ledger braces removed can be loaded to 100% the lift above 50% max.
 
ChrisEng said:
Hi Stuart

Welcome to the forum

It is possible to remove the ledger braces, but it must be managed and controlled on site.

For low level timber framed houses it should not be an issue. but for higher buildings it may become a problem on leg loads and stability.

I will scan the relevant pages and send to Maggie to forward to you.

All the best

Chris eng:)
Click to expand...

Hi Chris,

Sorry to pick your brain, but why does it make a difference on a low level job? It came up on a small job we were doing, I just quote chapter and verse tg20 and there's no allowance regarding height in that. I know it's common sense but is that not what the powers that be are trying to phase out. :eek:
 
Act On Group said:
Hello,

Can anyone confirm that it is acceptable to remove ledger bracing on a working lift (timer frame scaffold) as long as the bracing remains in place in the lifts above and below?

Not got access to TG20:08 to be able to check.

Many thanks

Stuart.
Click to expand...

Stuart

Even if it is still allowed, the scenario you speak of would be a nightmare to control and police. Even with a permanant presence on site I would not envy the man trying to control this. As soon as the ba*t**d brickies find out it's possible to remove braces, out will come the rusty old double ender from the bucket and they'll be disappearing from all over the place mate. A compromise might be to brace off the handrail, this is still allowed, there is a thread on here re: this subject (i've posted a link) you might find it interesting reading.

http://www.scaffoldersforum.com/scaffolders-forum/1292-help-bracing-off-hand-rail.html
 
ask a site agent for persimmon homes or barratt homes they will have the answer as they have done a scaffold inspection course....lol....
 
Hmmm. I'm concernes to read some of these replies. TG20:08 initially allowed the removal of ledger bracing on two consecutive working lifts provided they were replaced before any more were removed BUT THIS WAS THEN REVOKED IN 2009 WITH AN ADDENDUM - TG20:08 now DOES NOT ALLOW for ledger bracing to be removed WITHOUT A DESIGN unless the scaffold is plan braced as per the requirements within TG20. This should be bread and butter knowledge for all scaffolders in the UK - you remove the ledger bracing with no design, it collapses, you could be standing in the dock, and ignorance is no defence!

Be careful how you deal with this!
 
Oi! said:
Hmmm. I'm concernes to read some of these replies. TG20:08 initially allowed the removal of ledger bracing on two consecutive working lifts provided they were replaced before any more were removed BUT THIS WAS THEN REVOKED IN 2009 WITH AN ADDENDUM - TG20:08 now DOES NOT ALLOW for ledger bracing to be removed WITHOUT A DESIGN unless the scaffold is plan braced as per the requirements within TG20. This should be bread and butter knowledge for all scaffolders in the UK - you remove the ledger bracing with no design, it collapses, you could be standing in the dock, and ignorance is no defence!

Be careful how you deal with this!
Click to expand...

I'm assuming the addendum you refer to was the revised issue of Technically Speaking issue in June 2008 ? This was not an addendum as such, but a brief summary of TG20:08, which included the default state of ledger bracing being installed fully.

However, as Chris points out earlier, partial removal of ledger bracing is still allowed and is covered in Volume 2 of TG20:08, which I would hazard a guess that many people don't even know exists. The tables in Appendix B covers the revised maximum heights and tie capacities required for partially ledger braced scaffolds.
 
as qualified scaffs we erect a job and sign it off as a correctly built safe structure, removing braces of any kind alters the integrity of the build, so f**k the brickies,,,,we cannot legally make a scaffold structure unsafe. If we start removing braces then why put them in at all??????????????
 
Mark ISL - I hear where you are coming from and you are basically saying the same as I am - you can remove the bracing BUT ONLY under a specific design. Anything in Volume 2 (and some of Volume 1) is guidance for the scaffold designer.

Therefore full circle back to my earlier positng - if it is a basic scaffold you can not remove the ledger bracing. You can ONLY remove theledger bracing if the specific design for the scaffold allows for it. IF there is no design with design calcs allowing for it, LEDGER BRACING CAN NOT BE REMOVED.
 
Oi! - maybe ChrisEng can clarify for us, but I do not believe Volume 2 purely to be for designers. Admittedly, some of the information in there is way over my head, but section 10, and in particular tables 34 to 36, give specific details of maximum heights allowed for part ledger braced scaffolds. This eliminates the need for a specific design and calculations as they've already been done, provided all the other details pertaining to basic scaffolds are met.

Similarly, section 9 has tables of maximum heights for basic scaffolds with fully loaded inside boards, so allowing basic scaffolds to be built without a specific design, but fully complying with the requirements of BS-EN 12811.
 
Mark, Interesting interpretation. I'll have to go back and review this as you put forward a good case. I wonder if anyone else has knowledge of this?
 
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