ledger bracing on timber frame

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millwall

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having a problem with an agent about removing ledger bracing on a lift, which is 2.3m in height and a timber frame job.he is saying we cant do it , and wants proof that we can. it is a t+f job.have checked TG 20.08, sec 10 page 161.which states about basic scaffolds of 2m etc, you can, also that you must have an unimpeded access. it states that if above 2m needs design, any one else had this problem, or can any one give a decent reply for him other than where to stick his two day course, thanks in advance.also the timber frame uk guide sheds no light on it.
 
If the lift is 2.3m, then it is probably outside the remit of TG20 and it would require a design
Ties fixed in the position of the brace should be Ok, but you should get a design and supporting calculations, IF they do want the braces removed.
Personally I'd tell em to fink again:nuts:
 
Ledger Brace

Free standing scaffolds for timber frame (when erected prior to the frame being erected) should have a design (and calcs) so pass the request onto the engineer or designer for him to confirm if the brace can be removed. That way you are covering yourself because if anything happens and the **** hits the fan you can bet you will get the blame for altering a 'designed' scaffold (unless you can prove it was ok to do so). It may be ok depending on location and if only for a short period of time.
Is the scaffold 2.3m high or the lift height?
Can't fault the guy for wanting his arse covering.
 
great question millwall as i have come across this loads of times ...for me it is the agent and bricky who want the braces taken out..

i have not read 20.8 as im not working and couldnt afford to buy at the minute ( anyone got a spare copy :) )

i read before that it was a no no unless designed they used to say about a barrow run with braces every standard on the handrail..

not great ..you can see my thread about system scaffolds and also the use of ready lok is the only way forward for timber frame

i was getting £4 a brace 2 out then back in ...earned boss a good bit of money 100 braces / lift 6 lifts high

to add to that we didnt get their next job to expensive
( turned out ok though as the timber frame was set alight and burnt the scaff with it )

i will watch this thread with interest

tim
 
Wouldnt of thought so i would of thought you would have 2 plan brace the whole lift with designer approval
 
timthumb, in the community groups, somebody was decent enough top put tg20 on, name escapes me at the moment.
 
Taking the ledger brace out can be substituted by plan bracing but depends on length of run and next tie location, or if netted (probably get away with along a gable of about 8m-10m plan bracing from front to rear). Done a few timber frame jobs in 2 x 2.4m high lifts and only way we can leave brace out is by having the buttress up to base lift then braced to 2nd lift ledger with foot tie all around buttress and o/s standards. We had drawings and calcs to back up.
Even using easyfix trannies. Hope this helps?
 
why are your lifts 2.3 mtrs high , you should be able to remove bracing so long as the lifts above are not in use, we generally do timber frame 5 brd wide plus 3 brd hop up , kicker lift at dpc height then 2mtr lifts , then set the roof lift at appropriate assuming the roof lift will be struck before brickwork reaches that high .

what you generally find is site managers listen too much to the frame company then insist you erect scaffold for them the way they request it , they forget there are other trades to think of.
 
hi s .scaff75

what are you doing the hop up with brackets or are you using system ? and their type of bracket

tim
 
We also did timber frame with T&F and bought 500 brand new Brackets to fit too the Stds, which meant, 4 inside Stds per 4m board, we wernt supplied with any internal corner pans though. so had to undersling with 6 foots and add a trannie on the boarded lfts for the corners, it was a pain in the arse lifting the brkts to intermediate lift heights on the corners, if we had of even had a few 3 board brkts, we could have but them off the corner on a angle and caught 2 boards for the corner returns.

However,we lost the job to a Layher company, and they are welcome to it. I never found out where the 500 brkts went to rhough:suspicious:
 
i used the 2 board hop ups ran ledgers then used butts for trannies an alternate to the amount of standards

what did lads do for the lift being bumped and inside handrail ?
preventing the fall down to the intermediate level
 
dave was gonna mention that you can get ledger brackets which are a whole lot better than std brackets.

timthumb as long as kicker lift , first lift an 3rd lift are boarded including hop ups you dont need internal handrail , you can also raise first lift hop ups to joist level so joiners cannot fall and anyone using first lift to load out the hop ups act to stop internal falls as a temp handrail

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

there is probably a market for some well thought out design for hop ups , especially if they can take a fitting onto them
 
entender trannys ? are those like the lynx transoms that lyndons use with the double arms that slide in and out. these are great when using brackets when you need to lift to boarded height

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

why would you need 4 inside standards every 4 m . if you are using the brackets that attatch to the standards cant you just double the boards up ? i havnt used them brackets for ages . been using the ones that you run an extra 2 ledgers in for on the inside standards and set the brackets where you n eed them
 
allan66 said:
entender trannys ? are those like the lynx transoms that lyndons use with the double arms that slide in and out. these are great when using brackets when you need to lift to boarded height

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

why would you need 4 inside standards every 4 m . if you are using the brackets that attatch to the standards cant you just double the boards up ? i havnt used them brackets for ages . been using the ones that you run an extra 2 ledgers in for on the inside standards and set the brackets where you n eed them
Click to expand...

Reason being they are std brackets and not fitted to ledgers, so you cant butt them unless you drop in puncheons, so it is already up and down with lap boards.
 
Hi Scaff75,
We start with working out the top lift 600mm below eaves (saves having to strip out as you mention) then split the difference in height (on 2 storey houses) and had scaffold designed for 2 lifts to save erecting the foot tie (which the contractor always whinge about for access etc). Fix 3 inside boards (or 3 board hop-ups depending where lift sits at chamber level) for timber frame and fix 2 board hop-ups for the brickies (when ready), it doesn't matter to the brickies the lifts being 2.3m high as they can still reach everything off the hop-ups. As you say the timber frame guys send in what they want and it seems as though the main contractors think they are the only ones who use it.
 
but the foot tie is at dpc ready for the brickies to work off and doesnt impede access fantheshit, 1st lift is above head height close to joists then depending on the overall eaves height we can sometimes put 2nd lift in without need for a roof scaffold lift. there is that many different designs an different ground conditions there is no ideal design that fits all jobs i just think our way of doing it is a good way that fits most purposes but each to their own bud
 
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