Health and Safety in Scaffolding.

TomP

TomP

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Been thinking about this and my mind more and more seems to edge to 'if you can't beat them - join them!'

now dont get me wrong i do love my job, but on price as i am, im finding it harder and harder to make the money, longer walks, lower price on footage, cant use the ally steps anymore, sg4:10 step ups..... blah blah it keeps going on and on.

There are more and more reasons for thinking maybe life would be a bit easier if i was doing the judging rather than being judged.

today i spent 25 mins trying to get one of the other wagons started on site as it had broken down, i had to go around the site to find a ladder suitable for the site manager and the clerk of works so they could go up onto the scaffold to check the roof. first thing this morning had to wait 40 minutes for an address that i could have been given last night at 3.30. all this takes away the time that i should be knocking the footage out but cant because people seem to think i can sort anything out aswell as hit deadlines!

whats your opinion? fight it to the death or join them?
 
fight it for me mate,its like the footballers say when they retired too early,they wish they had played on.they regret they retired,a dont ever want to unsaddle the horse but there will come the day when you know its time,not if your fit and able and most importantly still up for it,besta luck whatever you decide mate.
 
oh ive still got the fight, but when the mortgage needs to be paid and my monies going down and down because of the extra bits and bats here and there, supervisors who cant give the necessary information when needed and other scaffs asking of i can have a look at their jobs even though theyre on the same money...

if i could go back to being a second spanner and just put the graft in with no mither from site managers, supervisors, resident liason officers, qs's, plumbers, electricians all saying when will this be ready.........

when its done and not before DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!

ha ha

i know i wouldnt like to be a second spanner again but for just a couple of days a week if someone else could deal with the crap and just let me do what i love doing!

Besides id put too much weight on not on the spanners:D
 
TomP said:
oh ive still got the fight, but when the mortgage needs to be paid and my monies going down and down because of the extra bits and bats here and there, supervisors who cant give the necessary information when needed and other scaffs asking of i can have a look at their jobs even though theyre on the same money...

if i could go back to being a second spanner and just put the graft in with no mither from site managers, supervisors, resident liason officers, qs's, plumbers, electricians all saying when will this be ready.........

when its done and not before DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!

ha ha

i know i wouldnt like to be a second spanner again but for just a couple of days a week if someone else could deal with the crap and just let me do what i love doing!

Besides id put too much weight on not on the spanners:D
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hi TomP. l know exactly wot u mean. wud love to just get wiv the job nd no hassle !!!
 
why fight it, use your energy over winter when price is rock bottom due to weather an daylight and get yourself on a health n safety course .

why fight something you cant win.

money is easier to earn, and eventually if you continue to advance your learning will earn more than any price job.

quality of life vastly improves

use your experience to help improve things

you could be an advisor, manager, officer, trainer, supervisor, teacher or maybe even a trend setter blazing a trail of health n safety techniques, or safe systems of work for people who are involved with working at height lol

possibly help develop or invent an excellent piece off ppe or device that allows freedom of movement yet prevents a fall while working at height.

H&S also like scaffolding gives you job satisfaction

Or you could continue chewing your puddings out to scrape a living in all weathers, fighting a battle you cant win,
Change my friend is enevitable be the assessor not the assessed
 
superscaff75 said:
why fight it, use your energy over winter when price is rock bottom due to weather an daylight and get yourself on a health n safety course .

why fight something you cant win.

money is easier to earn, and eventually if you continue to advance your learning will earn more than any price job.

quality of life vastly improves

use your experience to help improve things

you could be an advisor, manager, officer, trainer, supervisor, teacher or maybe even a trend setter blazing a trail of health n safety techniques, or safe systems of work for people who are involved with working at height lol

possibly help develop or invent an excellent piece off ppe or device that allows freedom of movement yet prevents a fall while working at height.

H&S also like scaffolding gives you job satisfaction

Or you could continue chewing your puddings out to scrape a living in all weathers, fighting a battle you cant win,
Change my friend is enevitable be the assessor not the assessed
Click to expand...

That is good advice but if we all took that path who put the scaffolds up?
You still need good intelligent men on the tools.
 
Ive got my self the iosh managing safely this month, supervisors course earlyish next year, been looking at the Nebosh but decided to do that middle to end of next year,

i do have plans, change def is enevitable for the time being i will enhance it as its my key to a brighter, wider future!

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 PM ----------
RedViking said:
That is good advice but if we all took that path who put the scaffolds up?
You still need good intelligent men on the tools.
Click to expand...

I couldnt agree more, i have a good boss, but i still believe he does not appreciate what some of us do for the firm where other lads take the mick.

appreciation goes along way aswell as the pay packet!
 
red viking the people who us good intelligent scaffolders train to put it up will do the scaffolding, after we teach em how to do it properly using our experiences of being on tools, they will grow with legislation where as we feel bogged down so it makes sense for us to teach them old tricks using new methods lol
 
we do feel bogged down with it all,your right but id never give it up made too good a living and many great friends.hope to make many more in years to come,its the fight for me lol.
 
TomP said:
Been thinking about this and my mind more and more seems to edge to 'if you can't beat them - join them!'

now dont get me wrong i do love my job, but on price as i am, im finding it harder and harder to make the money, longer walks, lower price on footage, cant use the ally steps anymore, sg4:10 step ups..... blah blah it keeps going on and on.

There are more and more reasons for thinking maybe life would be a bit easier if i was doing the judging rather than being judged.

today i spent 25 mins trying to get one of the other wagons started on site as it had broken down, i had to go around the site to find a ladder suitable for the site manager and the clerk of works so they could go up onto the scaffold to check the roof. first thing this morning had to wait 40 minutes for an address that i could have been given last night at 3.30. all this takes away the time that i should be knocking the footage out but cant because people seem to think i can sort anything out aswell as hit deadlines!

whats your opinion? fight it to the death or join them?
Click to expand...

.
Go for it Tom you won't lok back:D
 
as a coach i always expected the people i coached with natural talent and ability to surpass were i got with my sport, i feel that progression is the key!

I was taught by someone, i was taught his way, as i got to turn the spanner more i learned different techniques that i found to be alot easier for me, in turn the people i have 'taught' have been shown my methods, they will either use them or find a way that suits them that is either quicker or easier for them - progression.

to enable progression to happen it takes skilled teachers who have the time on a daily basis to pass on their knowledge and help the people learning and develop their own ways.

pah this is getting too deep for me. some of the scaffs i have learned with have been rubbish some have been excellent both in knowledge and techniques i take my hat off to them because they all taught me something useful whether it was something easier or how not to do sommat!

i learn each day but still can only see us being kicked each and every day for a good number of years till things pick up again!:worried:
 
Few months back, one of my lads sprained his wrist, a good lad, so I put him on light duties. This entailed sorting out permits to work which we must have, chasing up people to sign them. Dealing with fitters, welders, electricians, laggers, etc. and been asked the usual question on a daily basis, when will it be ready and so on. By the end of the first week he was wishing he could get back on the tools. Meanwhile I was back on the tools and loving every minute, I had 4 weeks of that and it was like been a new person. Are we ever happy, but it does you good to have a change now an then,
 
i hope he was on your case Brandy asking you when you would be finished as there was another job supposed to have been up two days ago!
LOL!!!
 
celticbhoy, i dont see it as giving scaffolding up, i am still very much involved in the game and have my spanners on everyday.

i see it as helping to shape the future rather than being shaped by the future.

i didnt have a hard hat, work boots, harness or put double handrail on a job for the first few years of my working life ( 1990 ), it was a case of jump out wagon an lash job up as fast as possible best way you knew how then onto nxt job.

yet look at things now then add all paperwork involved etc etc most changes have been for the greater good of all involved.

but i sometimes think to myself what if an actual scaffolder, a real good intelligent, vastly experienced scaffolder had been one of the main contributers to all the changes, a key person in the decision process who listened, took ideas on board and tried out and tested various solutions to problems raised by health and safety , a person who both gave and recieved feedback and looked at everything from all angles, in all enviroments.

then gave a full and detailed explanation of his findings and showed everyone how it was best done , what it was best done for, when it was best done, why it was best done, where it was best done at, who it was best done by.

would we be where we are today probably
would we be more advanced than we are possibly
would we have had as much confusion doubtful

i think if more " old school " scaffs were to become more involved with the teaching , educating and demonstrating of good methods and safe systems of work the future of scaffolding would be a much more clear an less confusing place for the new up and coming scaffolders of the future
 
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Superscaff75 i agree, in my experience smaller firms dont have the right men to pass on the correct knowledge or ssow etc, they just jump out and slash it up. (im not saying all the smaller firms!!!!)

its the larger firms with good ssow and have forged a name for themselves such as Lyndons and Cape (just as examples not disrespecting any good firms out there!) that have good lads and seem to develop the good lads, i think alot of it stems from the management and supervision and possibly to some extent how your lads are treated. knowledge passed on by good workers is a good thing, but knowledge passed on by slashers isnt.

we all see jobs everyday that are ridiculous and in the back of your mind you think they are getting away with it and im being ripped for everything!
 
Hi Tomp,

Maybe a wee holiday is in order to re-energise you for the long winter ahead.:D
Superscaff is right in what he say's however I like to revert back to the old saying: Those that can - do, and those that can't - teach. Not true for all but I have found it to be not far wrong when dealing with the suits.
 
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i agree in part with you tomp but you say " in my experience smaller firms dont have the right men to pass on the correct knowledge or ssow etc" im not saying you wrong and you are no doubt correct about a lot of small firms.

but there are some good small firms who after doing all the training , bring young blood through the apprenticeships find themselves unable to keep hold of there newly qualified staff due to the lure of bigger better wage packets offered by some of the bigger outfits, so find themselves no better off financially as all grant money is actually spent on the trainee none is left over, and needing to train another youngster up.

it would be good to see these smaller companies get some kind of reward themselves to help soften the blow , which in turn could possibly help reduce the need for the just jump out and slash it up culture some small firms seem to promote


i did all the investors in people ( IIP ) workshops a few years ago which i thoroughly enjoyed and found very interesting,

not only did it have a good template to assist in the development, management, supervision etc etc and treatment of employees

if used correctly it could also help smaller companies hold on to their employees by making them feel appreciated and offering the chance of further personal advancement in both education and training for the future

so possibly in the future we may see even small companies doing things by the book , possibly :laugh:
 
TomP said:
i hope he was on your case Brandy asking you when you would be finished as there was another job supposed to have been up two days ago!
LOL!!!
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Have to be honest Tom, was a bit rusty the first week. Did'nt miss the the flak, that was directed at him. He's back on the tools now and says he's glad to be. Me, I'm back taking the flak, but he learned something, the boss'es job is not as handy as he thought.
 
Aom think your right mate but not long till xmas!

Superscaff, agree its not all the small firms alot is to do with the management and two firms i worked for had roofers as bosses. i found your last post interesting and informative, if management and supervisors had the time to do thiese courses and the blow was softened somehow i think your right there would be quite a difference in the quality of lads.

Brandy, i was assistant manager at my last firm and it was good as i only had to make decisions when the boss couldnt be got hold of or when they were on holiday for a month and leave you 3 days work for 18 men. i really enjoyed the challenge but too was glad when they were back, mainly due to the scaffolding aswell through the time and pricing jobs up late and not getting back till 10.30 some nights, then having to sort directions etc out.


some people are made to supervise and others are made to be on the tools, may be its the cross over where the problem is? or maybe the experience?
 
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