Are the CITB looking after us?

[scaffman1]

Is it just me or is scaffolding among very few trades (possibly the only one) where the trainees are only developed to be semi skilled i.e part 2NVQ by the citb?.Why aren't they taken through to advanced level?. We spend a lot of time and monies to train these lads whilst paying the citb levy, and still, when they become part 2 scaffolders all training funding is stopped!. can anyone elaborate on why this is so?
:notrust:

 

[scaffy]

ask nasc mate and cisrs

 

[dangeruss]

ask nasc mate and cisrs

same thing scaffy, If you take on apprentices ( we have 5) they are fully funded by the government until they achieve nvq level 3 (advanced) they have to be between 16-18 yrs old and it works like this and take approx 3 years-

1 hour test by auditor in our yard,numeracy test to see if applicant is worth the bother

2 weeks assesment at Bircham newton

1 week doing what we call a nearly part 1
2 weeks doing the part 1
1 weeks outward bound in wales
1 week doing the nearly part 2
2 weeks doing the part 2
2 weeks doing the advanced
I think its a 2 day assesment once the nvq is complete as far as I remember. I think this is right but feel free to point out any errors.

 

[scaffy]

looked at it mate but yet to find a lad thats got a days work in him , cheap labour they say

 

[scaffman1]

Cheers dangeruss, but i've just had the local citb rep at my yard this afternoon and he informed me that they only take them to part 2. We've got 4 trainees on the go at the minute and two are at part 2, we've just had to book an advanced course for one and it's costing around £1300.00 to send him, ok we will receive a grant for the time he's off the job but still with lost production and the cost of the course your talking probably £4k + in real money for the course. I've never had a trainee funded to advanced level, always had to pay for the advanced course. Am I being ripped off???

 

[essex]

well training a young guy, lets say of 16 to become, part 1, then 2 and possibly 3, unless he picks it up very very quick, which 95% of youngesters dont then you would have a advanced 20 year old running a site telling a 50+year old with a part 2 ticket how to do his job, correct me if im wrong

 

[scaffman1]

Thanks for your comments essex, I understand your point completely, but at some point or other they should be allowed the opportunity to complete the training that they began as part of the same course. The lad that I'm sending is around 26 or so and a good lad at that.My point is that if all scaffolders are only trained to be semi skilled, and believe me, a lot of companies out there wont stump up the cost of an advanced course.where does that leave our long term future (qualification wise). Is this why we have so many 40 or 50 year old part 2 scaffs around? that would they have had the opportunity to, would be good advanced scaffs..

 

[dangeruss]

Cheers dangeruss, but i've just had the local citb rep at my yard this afternoon and he informed me that they only take them to part 2. We've got 4 trainees on the go at the minute and two are at part 2, we've just had to book an advanced course for one and it's costing around £1300.00 to send him, ok we will receive a grant for the time he's off the job but still with lost production and the cost of the course your talking probably £4k + in real money for the course. I've never had a trainee funded to advanced level, always had to pay for the advanced course. Am I being ripped off???

I don't think yor being ripped off scaffman, we get our advice/funding info from Northampton college. They will ring us up and tell us what funding is available at what times its a bit of a lottery really. I think budgets vary from county to county so you would need to check it out. They give us the training schedule and dates and times , what can I say it works for us mate but please bear in mind we also have 30-60 bricklayers and trainee bricklayers at any time as well so perhaps we get looked after as we promote apprentices.

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

well training a young guy, lets say of 16 to become, part 1, then 2 and possibly 3, unless he picks it up very very quick, which 95% of youngesters dont then you would have a advanced 20 year old running a site telling a 50+year old with a part 2 ticket how to do his job, correct me if im wrong

I have had that very scenario with 20 year old scaffs being more qualified than 40 year old scaffs on the same site,its ***** but the best way to get qualifications.

 

[Rigger]

Lot of good points there Scaffman

As to the age of someone running a job I believe 25 years is the minimun I would be looking for with all the regulations we have to adhere to. I dont think a lad under that age would command the respect of the other scaffs no matter how qualfied he may be.

Having said that I was a foreman at 23 for Mills,but that was old school where you lead from the front,first down hangers,out on the needles and an ability to slap anyone who gave you any ****.Like I said old school different world altogether.The weak went to the wall and the cream rose to the top the foreman scaffolder ran the job,not the supervisor or Q.S. and the site manager had to ask you in a correct manner if you would allow alterations or modifications (back hand time £££)

 

[steve gregory]

Basic answer is sold down the river.......Cskills as its known now doesnt care either i seem to think......

 

[Joe90]

Lot of good points there Scaffman

As to the age of someone running a job I believe 25 years is the minimun I would be looking for with all the regulations we have to adhere to. I dont think a lad under that age would command the respect of the other scaffs no matter how qualfied he may be.

Having said that I was a foreman at 23 for Mills,but that was old school where you lead from the front,first down hangers,out on the needles and an ability to slap anyone who gave you any ****.Like I said old school different world altogether.The weak went to the wall and the cream rose to the top the foreman scaffolder ran the job,not the supervisor or Q.S. and the site manager had to ask you in a correct manner if you would allow alterations or modifications (back hand time £££)

Well said Rigger you old labouring dog you :laugh:

 

[aom]

I don't think you are being ripped of either Scaffman, we are the very same, here is how it is working for us:

1) 2 week diddy course.(this is a tube)

2) 3 week part 1.

3) 3 week assessment and part 2.

4) 2 week Final assessment.

I think that's it anyway, seems there is an apprentice away nearly every week.(bah humbug) We are not the only trade that stops funding this way, are plumbers not in the same boat? The old basic level means they are fit to call themselves scaffs and a different ball game if you need advanced scaffs to run a gang.

 

[dangeruss]

Cheers dangeruss, but i've just had the local citb rep at my yard this afternoon and he informed me that they only take them to part 2. We've got 4 trainees on the go at the minute and two are at part 2, we've just had to book an advanced course for one and it's costing around £1300.00 to send him, ok we will receive a grant for the time he's off the job but still with lost production and the cost of the course your talking probably £4k + in real money for the course. I've never had a trainee funded to advanced level, always had to pay for the advanced course. Am I being ripped off???

I stand corrected scaffman, I spoke to the lady who sorts out the training about your point today and she said the nvq level 3 (advanced ) is adult learning and not covered in the apprenticeship. I learned something new today,those pesky apprentices need to start saving up for their advanced course. !!!!!

 

[scaffman1]

Cheers dangeruss. Another quick point on this subject, I was reading the leaflet that the citb rep left with me yesterday, and on that it actually gives the amount of grant payments payable to the sponsor company for the nvq level 3 in year 3 on it !!! odd that eh..

 

[SSSTSAdvScaff]

well training a young guy, lets say of 16 to become, part 1, then 2 and possibly 3, unless he picks it up very very quick, which 95% of youngesters dont then you would have a advanced 20 year old running a site telling a 50+year old with a part 2 ticket how to do his job, correct me if im wrong

This was me at 21!! Didnt start as a trainee until 18 though :nuts:

 

[TomP]

i started at 19 and at 21 i had two labourers with me one to labour and one to show how to get on the spanners.

at the time we were only house bashing and cards didnt come into it, most of our work was for Casey and Seddons around the Gorse Hill area and do you know what ive only been asked this year for the first time if ive got cards!

people wouldnt argue with you because you could do the job you where told to do, even when we did Salford Uni no one questioned it and the foreman didnt have any cards either, so in theory 17 scaffs shouldnt have been on the job cos no part 1!

If you were struggling to get your head round something or someone else was leading you dropped back and laboured your arse off or asked what they wanted you to do, you can always fill in, but if you didnt ask or you stood there you got a right crack.

you can always work and i think people take a more lienient view if youve never done something before but you get stuck in helping get the gear and they ask what they need you to do, i know i dont mind it aslong as they graft!