Advanced Scaffolders System Training

scaff38

scaff38

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Well my question is should an CISRS advanced scaffolder have to go on more training course to erected system scaffolds.

What is your view.
 
In my opinion no,you had to erect a cuplock support scaffold in the advanced course on the assessed route course,system is very straight forward,perhaps it may be neccesary to do a 1 or 2 day refresher,if regulations regarding the erection of systems changes dramatically,but its a doddle to use it,shouldnt be held anywhere as complex as tube and fitt...
 
Your proposal is correct.

2 day course at Newcastle college for CISRS scaffolders to get system on their card, however, £££££££££££££
 
Horses for Courses, Guys we are more qualified than most.

If the oppurtunity arises for a free course, go for it....Irespective of your beliefs, Knowledge=Power, However, a little Knowledge, in the wrong hands = Anger, which a addition of a D=Danger.

I realise courses are not everyones proverbial 'Cup of tea'. However, the job you's are currently undertaking, shows the Knowledge, of you's being a competent scaffolder, you have the card to prove it, and the knowledge to do it.

We are more compliant than any other trade, regarding, H&S, WAHR 2005.

IMHO, let the Scaffolders, 'Scaffold' And the PC clients, watch in AWE.

Rant over.
Paddy
 
well it should only be tube n fitting cos systems are crap!.n an advance course is for ppl who want to go somewhere with their career n use system scaffolds

---------- Post added at 05:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 PM ----------

worked with cuplock when i worked for SGB for yrs n scary jelly with intersreve n you all know that a real scaff uses tube n fitting lol
 
In each of the 3 current courses on route to Advanced (T&F) there is a system module.

Part 1: Erect and dismantle independent system scaffold

Part 2: Product Familiarization in system scaffold

Advanced: Erect and dismantle staircase T&F and System

IMO the need for additional system training for Advanced and Part 2 devalues the CITB scaffolders training program as it stands. .

Lets be honest its all about the $$$$$$$$$ :mad:
 
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did my part 1 in 92',patr2 96' n advance wa SGB in 2005 n assements in 2005 and all of it was in T&F n only did systems when i was with SGB!!,T7F is the only way to do scaffolds,any other way,you are not a scaff!!!
 
Podger said:
In each of the 3 current courses on route to Advanced (T&F) there is a system module.

Part 1: Erect and dismantle independent system scaffold

Part 2: Product Familiarization in system scaffold

Advanced: Erect and dismantle staircase T&F and System

IMO the need for additional system training for Advanced and Part 2 devalues the CITB scaffolders training program as it stands. .

Lets be honest its all about the $$$$$$$$$ :mad:
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that one podger. When I did my ticket's there was nothing else in amongst it, but now the young team are coming back with all sorts mixed in. Don't get me wrong, it saves heaps on other training as insurance and nasc auditors get to tick all their wee box's.

Paddy,

I agree also that knowledge is power, but to send an experienced scaff on a course to erect yellow jelly is more to do with the cash than the benefit of the man or the firm.
 
Sure, every system will have it's quircks, but I reckon we could all read a manuall if we had to. There is bound to be a trick or two that users could teach us but I think t&f scaffs could handle the basic principle.:D
 
Competent Person

Under the relevant health and safety laws a scaffold must be erected by a "Competent Person" Therefore how could an Advanced Scaffolder armed with the relevant manufactures handbook not be considered "competent" to erect a system scaffold in accordance with the manufactures specifications ?

Answers be email to NASC/CITB :idea:
 
The problem with the "Competent Person" thing is that it's all sweetness and light as long as nothing goes wrong, but if the worst was to happen it gives the executive another stick to beat us over the head with. I scincerely believe that is why most of their legislation is so vague, so no matter the circumstance they can drag you through the courts. I did a supervisors course a few years back and to cut a long story short, operative using power saw all ppe and ticket taped to his hat, hse on site no problem, brand new disc snaps in a million bits cuts the guy, now your getting dragged through the court. Basically, no I don't think experienced guy's should need a daft 2 day system course, but will the ones who got their tickets the old way be going, probably.:mad:
 
I agree the HSE definition of a "Competent Person" can be a bit vague and often contradictory the following is from HSE website.


Competence and supervision issues

* All employees should be competent (or in the case of trainees, supervised by a competent person) for the type of scaffolding work they are undertaking and should have received appropriate training relevant to the type and form of scaffolding they are working on.
* Employers must provide appropriate levels of supervision taking into account the complexity of the work and the levels of training and competence of the scaffolders involved.
* As a minimum requirement, every scaffold gang should contain an appropriately qualified scaffolder for the type and complexity of the scaffold to be erected, altered or dismantled. This may be an individual who has received training under an industry recognised training scheme, e.g. CISRS, and has been awarded the scaffolder card or someone who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme, to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
* Trainee scaffolders should always work under the direct supervision of a qualified scaffolder (i.e. a working foreman). Scaffolders are classed as 'trainees' until they have completed the approved training and assessment required to be deemed qualified.
* Erection, alteration and dismantling of complex designed scaffolding (e.g. suspended scaffolds, shoring, temporary roofs etc) should be done under the direct supervision of a competent person. This may be a qualified Advanced scaffolder, a design engineer providing they possess the necessary industry experience or alternatively an individual who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
 
mmm, I still think it's open to interpretation. I know they have to be carefully worded but there seems to be quite a bit of room for them to manoeuvre. Maybe I'm reading far too much in to it, has any body actually sent experienced scaffs on such a course or attended one. More importantly, did you learn anything.
 
Podger said:
I agree the HSE definition of a "Competent Person" can be a bit vague and often contradictory the following is from HSE website.


Competence and supervision issues

* All employees should be competent (or in the case of trainees, supervised by a competent person) for the type of scaffolding work they are undertaking and should have received appropriate training relevant to the type and form of scaffolding they are working on.
* Employers must provide appropriate levels of supervision taking into account the complexity of the work and the levels of training and competence of the scaffolders involved.
* As a minimum requirement, every scaffold gang should contain an appropriately qualified scaffolder for the type and complexity of the scaffold to be erected, altered or dismantled. This may be an individual who has received training under an industry recognised training scheme, e.g. CISRS, and has been awarded the scaffolder card or someone who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme, to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
* Trainee scaffolders should always work under the direct supervision of a qualified scaffolder (i.e. a working foreman). Scaffolders are classed as 'trainees' until they have completed the approved training and assessment required to be deemed qualified.
* Erection, alteration and dismantling of complex designed scaffolding (e.g. suspended scaffolds, shoring, temporary roofs etc) should be done under the direct supervision of a competent person. This may be a qualified Advanced scaffolder, a design engineer providing they possess the necessary industry experience or alternatively an individual who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
Click to expand...

To answer SCAFF38's original question does an Advanced Scaffolder need specific training to erect system scaffold. based on my interpretation of the above HSE guidelines regarding competence Paragraph 1 would indicate YES whereas Paragraph 3 would indicate NO :confused:
 
I think this one will be dictated by major contractors i.e. "you're not erecting that on my site without your ticket"
 
Sadly, that's exactly how this will be decided.
 
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